Messaggi del 97 dai messaggi
luglio
del 97 dai messaggi
agosto del 97 
dai messaggi
settembre del 97 dai 
messaggi
ottobre del 97 dai messaggi
novembre del 97 dai messaggi
dicembre dal 98 gennaio

Data: Wed, Il 05 Febbraio 1997 21:19:46 -0700
A: daugava@nothnbut.net da: oggetto di danyo@montrose.net:
Oggetto: Fw: Le notizie circa l'idroestrattore 
daugava@nothnbut.net hanno scritto: > 
************************************************* > data: Sole, 
Il 18 Gennaio 1998 12:59:40 -0800 > A: daugava@nothnbut.net > 
da: proof@idt.net > oggetto: Oggetto: Fw: Le 
notizie circa l'idroestrattore > > daugava@nothnbut.net hanno scritto:
> > > > ************************************************* > > 
data: Sole, Il 18 Gennaio 1998 11:04:56 -0700 (MST) > > A:  
> > da: jback@nilenet.com > > oggetto: Oggetto: 
Fw: Notizie circa l'idroestrattore > > > > 
>************************************************* > > > data: 
Thu, Il 15 Gennaio 1998 11:49:56 -0600 > > > A: "Lista 
Spedente" 
> > > da: jback@nilenet.com > > > oggetto: 
DESIDERI APPENA POSSIBILE PIÙ Info > > > > > Caro Robert; 
> > > > li ho scritti alcuni giorni fa ed ho desiderato appena 
restare in contatto. I > > > progettando una bici motorizzata io
stesso dopo gli anni di ristabilimento vari > idroestrattori > > (4 
finora, anche se sono ora si scolano a possedere appena uno, i 1948 BF
> Goodrich > > H-modello [ di Schwinn ]). > > > > sono stato 
affascinato sempre dagli aggeggi sconosciuti e più di meno di > 
ordinario > > mezzi di ottenere dal punto A a Pittsburgh.... il mio 
primo automobile che è a > 1958 > > DKW 2-stroke (allora autorizzato 
come motociclo dentro O [ 1976 ] con a > legge del casco > > in 
effetti e una forza confusa della polizia in città) - - - ora 
possedere '57 > > Studebaker ed i 1930 iniziali modella uno Speedster 
che guido quasi > ogni giorno > > > > ma il miei cuore, anima ed 
intestini più bassi appartengono ai motocicli chiari > e > > scooters
(essendo marcio guastato 1962 da un Cushman Aquila D'argento). 
I > amore > > idroestrattori, ma deve ammettere che piuttosto 
andrei 55 sulla mia aquila che 35 su > a > > Whiz... ma sembr sicuro 
freddo! > > > > sono attualmente un ufficiale di polizia ed il 
mio obiettivo è di aprire uno scooter > un negozio vicino > > 
università de Denver nei 3 anni futuri. Sto lavorando con > 
esperienza > > macchinista nella progettazione dell'unità motrice 
Honda-basata 4-stroke che utilizza a > pochi > > componenti di Whiz 
del repro'd. Ho visto l'idroestrattore di repro ed ero irritato 
> deludente > > tramite l'esecuzione (non accennare la pubblicità 
falsa blatant; > annata > > pix & tutto dell'idroestrattore). 
> > > > la mia bici (a titolo di prova denominata il BAX) sarà 
montata in uno Schwinn > in un incrociatore > > struttura (forcella 
dello springer, serratura del ciclo > + aus. > > serbatoio) nelle 
versioni standard (non-balzate) e deluxe. Entrambi includeranno 
un espansore > un freno moderni dello Stermy-stermy-Archer. I > 
> programma sullo sviluppare parecchie opzioni di apparenza (scarico 
fishtail, > mini-punto > > lites) per complimentare le bici. 
Ancora sto risolvendo qualche secondario > > particolari di 
ingegneria quanto ai profili della cinghia ed alla rimozione della 
cinghia ma ho > funzionato > > verso l'esterno il problema principale 
di un adattatore dell'albero di frizione (problema costoso, > > 
incidentalmente). > > lo smog di raduni del motore di Honda in 
tutte e 50 le condizioni ed azionerà 185lb > tipo > > circa 23mph al 
livello del mare... nessun demon di velocità per sicuro ma 
sufficiente > > > > sono interessato nel vostro resusitation 
dell'idroestrattore e gradirei > mi verifico > > commerciante Info li 
vedo avere sormontare grande della transenna > centinaia di > > 
proprietari dell'idroestrattore verso l'esterno là sapere circa la 
macchina più in anticipo lousy > > reputazione --- e ritenga che 
dovete rinviare al seperate barrel/(best > > disegno della testa di 
w/hi-finned) --- che ottiene come vicino alla serie di J o di H come >
> > possibile. La carburazione è problematica poichè Mikuni è
il la maggior parte > stabilito > > mini-carb produttore intorno, che 
sickens il a.lot di Tillotson purists. > io sono > > estremamente 
curioso come state andando superare questi problemi, non > > > certs 
dello smog di menzione, approvazione del PUNTINO, ecc. > > è voi 
progettazione per fare tutta la riproduzione di bi-light/generator? 
> > chi ha fare i vostri sheves? > > > > per Chrissake 
resti in contatto, ottenete andanti e desidero essere a > 
commerciante!!! > > > > Jack Backstreet > > 19004 E Chenango CIR
> > Aurora, Co 80015-4948 > > > > Fax: (303) 627-8032. > > > > >
> > > parlare dei veicoli sconosciuti affatto di voi che sono stati 
mai a rurale > regioni > dell'Italia hanno veicolo pratico sconosciuto
delle 3 rotelle di senza Piaggio visto dubbio > denominato "la 
scimmia" (ape in italiano in contrasto con "il vespa" o la vespa). È 
> ottenuto > una carrozza inclusa nella parte anteriore con una 
sede di automobile normale in esso (soltanto una) e > > tipo aperto 
baia del camioncino scoperto del carico nella parte posteriore. 
La direzione è > controllato > da un tipo manubrio dello 
scooter con i freni che attivati mano penso. > le rotelle sono 
no più grandi delle rotelle dello scooter e dei suoni del motore come
a > tipo motore dello scooter - non sappia grande è. In ogni 
modo, questo sarebbe > > veicolo di ultracool da avere qui negli Stati
Uniti - buoni per i giorni piovosi quando > non > desiderare guidare 
il vostro ped. Chiunque vede mai uno qui? Del 31 Tipi 
Gennaio, 98 Hi: Stavo leggendo il vostro messaggio per quanto 
riguarda il veicolo fatto rotare tre. Durante il mio giro del 
dovere nel Vietnam, ho usato vedere molti dei questi veicolo. 
Penso che la maggior parte di loro siano state fatte da 
Lambretta. Hanno usato essere usati per i camion di raccolta ai 
tassì. Il vietnamita realmente ha saputo caricarli giù con 
qualche cosa che potrebbe appendere sopra o essere legato sopra. 
Non ne ho visto c'è ne qui negli S.U.A.. Veda il ya, Dan 
Johnson Gunnison, il CO 81230



Data: Seduto, Il 31 Gennaio 1998 23:15:49 -0500 
(Est) A: Lista Spedente Del Ciclomotore 
Da: oggetto di danny@dreamscape.com: Che 
cosa sono questi?? Ha trovato questo Web site di un posto nel FL
che vende gli scooters 50cc, ma non ci è suggerimento a che li fa... 
controllarli fuori  e dicami che cosa pensate... Sto indovinando una 
certa azienda Taiwan, in Cina o in Corea, ma è abbastanza duro 
dire... ai ringraziamenti! ska de Siracusa del 
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ 
del ~ di Danny del ~!!	 
interamente circa gli scooters!!  
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-



Data: Seduto, Il 31 Gennaio 1998 20:27:49 -0800 
(PST) A: daugava@nothnbut.net da: oggetto di 
shortwav@u.washington.edu: Raccolta che invia data (FWD): 
Thu, Il 29 Gennaio 1998 11:08:47 -0600 A: 
daugava@nothnbut.net da: oggetto di drbrown@gte.net: 
La raccolta che invia > fa qualcuno sa da dove posso comprare un
vecchio sears il ciclomotore di Allstate venduto > gli anni 50 tardi 
all'inizio degli anni 60? Penso che sia stata fatta da Puch. 
Have.got uno. Non è graziosa e non funziona ma se siete 
interessati sarei felice di venderla. Email giusto me se siete 
interessati. - Sig. Mark



Data: Thu, Il 06 Febbraio 1997 00:20:12 -0700 A: 
daugava@nothnbut.net da: oggetto di danyo@montrose.net: 
Oggetto: [ con riferimento a: Consiglio del motore 
di Tomos? ] daugava@nothnbut.net ha scritto: > 
************************************************* > data: Wed, 
Il 28 Gennaio 1998 18:19:18 -0500 > A: daugava@nothnbut.net > 
da: paltron@interlog.com > oggetto: Oggetto: [ con 
riferimento a: Consiglio del motore di Tomos? ] > > 
daugava@nothnbut.net ha scritto: > > > > > > > è ci dei 
ciclomotori condotti cinghia disponibili sul mercato degli STATI UNITI
> oggi?? > > i ringraziamenti, > > DS > > > > 
____________________________________________________________________ >
> > ottengono il E-mail libero e un indirizzo permanente a 
http://www.netaddress.com > > forse il cinetico che è un knockoff di 
Vespa/Piaggio. O potete osservare > per > un Mobylette o un 
Peugeot usato. Entrambi sono molto buoni. Gennaio 31, 98 
Ds: Ha visto un ciclomotore di Honda appena l'altro giorno ed ha
notato che era cinghia guidata! Non conosca quanto vecchio o che
modello era. Assomigliato mólto al punto di Motobecane 
attraverso. Dan Johnson




Data: Thu, Il 06 Febbraio 1997 00:33:57 -0700 A: 
daugava@nothnbut.net da: oggetto di danyo@montrose.net: 
Oggetto: Vespa Piaggio daugava@nothnbut.net ha scritto: 
> ************************************************* > data: 
Tue, Il 20 Gennaio 1998 17:58:20 Est > A: 
daugava@nothnbut.net > da: Huvz@aol.com > Oggetto: 
Oggetto: Vespa Piaggio > > la mia regola pratica è, mai 
$100 o più, a meno che stia funzionando e > potete > giro esso prima 
di voi buy. > se è completo e non funzionando e pulirete (nessuna 
ruggine) - > $50 > se esso non siete completi (bisogni QUALSIASI 
parti) io offriste $50 o di meno > secondo le vostre probabilità di 
individuazione dei missing collega > buona fortuna > Scott gennaio 31,
98 Scott: Ringraziamenti per il consiglio per quanto riguarda il
Piaggio. Ho pensato che il prezzo chiedente fosse troppo 
elevato. Lascerò il ya sapere risulta. Dan Johnson 
Gunnison, Co Danyo@Montrose.com



Data: Thu, Il 06 Febbraio 1997 00:43:44 -0700 A: 
daugava@nothnbut.net da: oggetto di danyo@montrose.net: 
Oggetto: Vespa Piaggio daugava@nothnbut.net ha scritto: 
> ************************************************* > data: 
Tue, Il 20 Gennaio 1998 19:02:47 -0800 > A: 
agner@erols.com > da: agner@erols.com > oggetto: 
Oggetto: Vespa Piaggio > > daugava@nothnbut.net ha 
scritto: > > > > 
************************************************* > > data: Mon,
19 Jan 1998 07:23:11 -0700
> > To:  "daugava@nothnbut.net" 
> > From: danyo@montrose.net
> > Subject:  Vespa Piaggio
> >
> > Jan 19, 1998
> >
> > Subject: Vespa Piaggio
> >
> > Hi everyone:
> >
> > I'm the new guy looking for a Peugeot Sport.  However, while
> discussing
> > Vespas with a friend of mine, he mentioned that he had one for
> sale.  I
> > thought he was talking about a scooter so I went and looked at it.
> > Turns out that it is a "piaggio" moped.  It's a 1979 model and
> doesn't
> > look to be in bad shape.  He wants $150 US.  Anyone have any ideas
> as to
> > the value of this bike?  Too Much?	Good deal?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dan Johnson
> Are you in Montrose, CO?	AS for the VEspa, I have one and love it.
> It's
> a 1980.  Parts are available through the shops in the US that support
> Vespa's.  John from NJ

   Jan 31,98

John:

No, I live in Gunnison but my server is in Montrose.  Any idea what the
value high/low might be on the Piaggio?  I understand from hitting every
moped link that I can find that the models vary.  I'm going to find out
what the exact model is prior to even making an offer.	I only ran
across this bike through a discussion I had regarding my restoration of
my 74 Yamaha TX500.  The guy that has the Piaggio just said "Vespa" and
I went and took a short look at it....thought he meant a scooter.  Might
be a fun ride though around here in the summer.

Gotta run

Dan Johnson



Date:  Sun, 01 Feb 1998 02:41:47 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: pinhead@ufl.edu
Subject:  The Tomos saga continues...


Finally had some time this weekend to sit down and start inspecting Mr.
Tomos.

First order of business was a change of tranny oil. I drained and
inspected the current contents of the gearbox, and aside from trace
amounts of what I assume is clutch dust, it was pure and clean.

At this point, I figured I was in a good position to open up the gearbox
(right side) and have a look. And everything appears fine.

The inside of the case was clean and free of residue and sludge. The
gears themselves were in perfect condition, free from cracks, scratches,
discoloration, uneven wear, or other signs of abuse. I'm no expert on
centrifugal clutches, but they appeared to be doing all right in terms
of lining.

Satisfied, I gave everything a quick wipe, then bolted it back together
and topped it off with fresh fluid.

Next, I pulled and inspected the plug. Again, flawless. The center
insulator was a proper shade of brown, the electrodes appeared
undamaged, and were gapped at just a hair over the manuals spec of .5mm,
looked like about .55 or .6 on my universal feeler. A slight oily coat
on the electrodes, but nothing too terribly thick. It isn't arcing. A
little anti-seize on the threads and back in goes the plug.

Next, with all the talk of exhausts, I decided to inspect mine. So I
removed the pipe from the cylinder. First, a quick inspection of the
exhaust port itself revealed little. Aside from a fairly rough casting
it was clean and clear.

The exhaust pipe was another matter.

Knowing that restriction is not our friend, I cleaned up the mating
surface of the pipe, pressed it against my lips, and gave a nice, smooth
exhale. I could not believe the amount of back-pressure! Felt like
something was clogging the pipe!

One set-screw later I had removed the baffle on the end, and I tried it
again. Smooth as silk this time. No restriction at all. So being the
naturally curious bastard that I am, I bolted my new straight-pipe
exhaust back onto the bike, and took it out for a spin.

Aside from being rather louder, I was quite disappointed. Throttle
response is definately somewhat quicker up on the kickstand, but on the
road, my digital speedo says I've gained about 1 mph of top speed at
wide-open throttle, downhill. And worse, my climbing performance is
totally unchanged.

So, back on with the cleaned-out baffle, and back to the drawing board.
It feels almost like this bike has a governor on it that's keeping me at
30mph.

Why is it that I have to hot-rod every vehicle I get into? :)

											  -=>Joe Perez<=-
										   -=>pinhead@ufl.edu<=-



Date:  Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:12:27 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SearsPucher@webtv.net
Subject:  Changed names


  Hi,
   Hope I requested properly. I was c104@webtv.net and requested stop
digest. I'm enjoying the digest and I'd like it under another user name,
SerasPucher@webtv.net I wrote a letter last night on 1967 sears puchs
and speeeed, and am anxious to see feedback.

I'm Gone!!!!!!!!!



Date:  Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:21:35 -0500
To:  moped mail 
From: jlove1@maine.rr.com
Subject:  Moped vs. Motorcycle


	Hi everyone,
		There's been all this talk about making mopeds faster. Some have
been mentioned to have bigger compression than 50cc and I wondered, if
not what classifies a bike as a moped and not a motorcycle, and where
the line is drawn?
		JLove



Date:  Sun, 01 Feb 1998 14:19:43 -0800
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: bunson@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject:  [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: help]]


X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
Message-ID: <34D4F053.972@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 13:59:47 -0800
From: brett bernier 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-SYMPA  (Win95; I; 16bit)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: daugava@notnbut.net
Subject: [Fwd: Re: help]
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
Message-ID: <34D444C0.3072@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 01:47:44 -0800
From: brett bernier 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-SYMPA  (Win95; I; 16bit)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: djs14@flash.net
Subject: Re: help
References: <33FCFE07.332E@flash.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

douglas sistrunk wrote:
>
> isaw that u owned a honda moped and was wandering if u knew how to
> remove the flywheel.
>
> please help
> d.j. sistrunk

	I want to apologise to you Douglas, for not replying sooner. I hadn't been
reading my e-mail for months and I ended up with 1538 messages in my INBOX a couple of
weeks ago. In fact, most were from the moped mailing list. I just found your's the
other night. I was a bit surprised at first, because I have been a	spectator on the
moped list, rather than a contributor. Then I felt guilty because someone had sought
my help and had been ignored. Forgive me for this.
	I am sorry I can't help with your flywheel removal problem. That kind of
information is found in a workshop manual. I don't have one yet for my moped. If you
know of a source, please let me know.
	My son-in-law gave me my moped for Christmas '96. It is a 1974 Honda PC50,
with 220 miles on the odometer. It was purchased and used in Europe on a Canadian Air
Force base - then later in Ontario, Canada. It has a 1991 Ontario moped licence plate
and registration papers. I have a signed transfer form and I hope to have it on the
road this summer
	When I first got it, I was wondering how much oil to mix with the gas, but
a visit to the library told me I had a 4-stroke. So I cleaned out the gas tank,
installed clear plastic tubing on the fuel line and an in-line filter as suggested by
other group members. With some fresh gasoline it started quite easily. But it doesn' t
want to STOP. The brakes are not working properly and the de-compression lever doesn't
stop the motor. There are some disconnected wires also. I really need a manual. I'm
going to rig up a kill switch for the ignition.
	Happy mopeding.

IAN MUNRO
MISSION, B.C.	(40 miles east of VANCOUVER)
CANADA.







Date:  Sun, 01 Feb 1998 21:13:42 EST
To:  jamstar@sb.net
From: lincoln33@juno.com
Subject:  Re: Puch for sale


where are you and how much?

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



Date:  Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:34:36 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: MOPEDMOPED@aol.com
Subject:  Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]


In a message dated 98-01-30 17:40:07 EST, you write:

<< Do you mean you sell custom mopeds?	How fast is the fastest moped on the
planet? Is it still 50ccs??
 Thanks,
 DS

  >>You can get anthing you want made up .
70cc  60mph is about as fast as you can get.  This of course will be for
public	street or hiway use.  Professional competion only as a moped is not
designed to go 60mph.  Racing only.....



Date:  Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:29:05 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: MOPEDMOPED@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Tomos engine advice?


To completly reset up and and align a Biturbo Exhaust system from a standard
configuration to fit a 60 to 70cc cylinder would only cost $25.00 to $30.00
which includes the use of the oxy-accetlyene torch to bend and change the
header angle. This is 75% less than buying a new exhaust system. This is a
great price. I have never seen another shop that has done this. That is why
when you call around most people tell you to buy a new exhaust. They do not
have the expertise that we have.
Most mopeds that come in for repair are "butcherd" up before we get them. We
have to correct the damage done to them by people that do not know what thet
are doing then fix the original problem. This take a lot of extra time. Just
last week we had someone try to mount a bi-turbo on there moped. The kid
twisted it, bent it, cut it, hammered it and still could not get it right.
When he brought it to us we straightened it out and properly installed it and
it dit cost him $10.00 extra. This is a real fair deal and like all our
repairs is back by a 3 month guarantee in writing.
													 Best Regards:
															 Steve Hassa
President
															 Steve's Moped &
Bicycle World Inc.
															  40 Park Avenue
Dumont NJ 07628
															 ph(201)384-7777
fAX(201)384-7831
															E-MAIL
MOPEDMOPED@AOL.COM



Date:  Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:33:53 -0700
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: jamstar@sb.net
Subject: Subject Unknown


Greetings:

I have a 1977 Puch Newport moped for sale. It has 385 miles on it. It has
been garaged for about 15 years. It had a little rust on it which I
scrubbed off, but it still would need repainting and rechroming. Some
people have told me to sell it for $75 and others $200. I'll take any
offers, but take note that it is in Santa Barbara, California.

Jean




Date:  Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:12:06 +0100
To:  "Peter Staal" 
From: staal@westbrabant.net
Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
Aan: Moped Mailing List 
Datum: vrijdag 30 januari 1998 23:44
Onderwerp: Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS


>*************************************************
>Date:	Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:50:00 -0400 (EDT)
>To:  <199801291619.KAA07910@mail.valuenet.net>
>From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
>Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
>
>
>I have a used 60 cc piston/cyclinder assembly I want to get rid of for
>$99. It's really not a bad thing if you really want the extra power. I put
>less than 200 miles on it before upgrading to a 70 cc. The 60 cc kit
>increased my top speed from 25 up to 37 mph.
>
>Michael Liu
>
>
>
Hi Michael,
 I guess that 90% of your gain in speed is made by the better porting of the
other cylinder and has almost nothing to do with the cc's (unless you weight
100 kg or more)...
:-) try to buy less cylinder in stead of more (more ports=less metal) 50cc
is enough trust me. why do you think it is so popular ? because it is just
not enough cc's?
when used all cc's properly a 50cc will carry you at an av. of >60km/h for
years. (37mph or more thus)

   Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Email: staal@concepts.nl
 Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:11:07 -0600
To:  "Mailing List" 
From: daugava@inlink.com
Subject:  New Whizzer Announcement


See it at /d/moped/newhiz.jpg



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:24:29 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Huvz@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Fw: Derbi scooters


 I saw the Derbi line at a motorcycle show. They have some extra cool bikes.
 good luck



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:58:19 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802030836.CAA31631@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: speed kits


This depends on alot of things. What is your present top speed on a
windless day-no inclines?

On my PUCH 2-speed, the max speed was increased from 25 to about 33 mph.
But the accelleration rocked-it was faster than cars. However, in order to
increase my top speed even more, I geared to sprockets from 3.1 to 1 to
2 to 1. The top speed is a little above 40mph. But the accelleration isn't
was good.

Michael Liu

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:38:46 EST
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: CrUsHeR78@aol.com
> Subject:	Re: speed kits
>
>
> how much faster does the moped go with a 70cc kit
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:11:16 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802030837.CAA31648@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: [speed kits]


I can only speak of the 70 cc kit that Andover sells and the 60 cc kit
that Steve's sell. The price that Steve was charging last August was a
little higher than Andover's. However, Steve is within driving distance of
me, so I could go there and examine the goods beforehand. Both speed kits
are a Eurocyclinder. The Amal carb is identical and so is the Biturbo
exhaust. The intake manifolds are different though. Steve's kit placed the
carb's air intake about 11 o'clock (the front of the bike is 12), Andover's
manifold placed the carb in the same place-so the covers still can be
used. Both come with a choke lever and gaskets. Steve's kit came with new
bolts and Andover's didn't. The 60cc kit uses your old head whereas the 70
cc kit comes with it's own. Neither comes with instructions.

I had to pay tax on the 60cc because I bought it locally, I had to pay
shipping on the 70cc kit because Andover Cycles is about a 48 hour drive
for me-my moped would take 2 weeks to get there.

I recommend that you e-mail both of them and ask for prices-they most
certainly change depending on the season+supply and demand. Steve is very
knowledgeable when it comes to PUCHs and you would be amazed to see some of
the things that go on in his shop(good things)-one thing that amazes me is
that his workspace is greaseless-no black stains on the floor-he keeps his
space immaculate. I've never personally seen Andover Cycles, but I have
spoken on many occasions with the owner:Lance Chayet. He is a very
knowledgeable, patient, and friendly person who is willing to help you with
what you're trying to accomplish.

Andover Cycles: andover@aol.com
Steve's Mopeds...: mopedmoped@aol.com

You should also try Mickey's: tomostomos@aol.com
he doesn't have speed kits, but he does have parts like the bITURBO PIPE
and of all things: a 17mm carb!!!

Michael Liu

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:01:08
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: drstupid@usa.net
> Subject:	Re: [speed kits]
>
>
> daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > *************************************************
> > Date:  Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:45:43 -0400 (EDT)
> > To:  <199801291617.KAA07794@mail.valuenet.net>
> > From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
> > Subject:  speed kits
> >
> >
> >
> > I have bought speed kits from Steve's Moped and also Andover cycles. I can
> > answer specific questions about both the 60 and 70 cc kits as they pertain
> > to PUCH Maxis. However, I have no experience with the TOMOS stuff and more
> > than likely, I won't.
>
> Is there any difference between the speed kits Steve's sells and the ones Andover sells?
> Thanks
> DS
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:12:52 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802030841.CAA31802@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


the line is drawn at 50cc. The speed kits are NOT INTENDED FOR STREET USE.
THEY ARE FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY!!! Anybody who sells you one makes sure
that this is clear!

Michael Liu

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:21:35 -0500
> To:  moped mail 
> From: jlove1@maine.rr.com
> Subject:	Moped vs. Motorcycle
>
>
>	  Hi everyone,
>		  There's been all this talk about making mopeds faster. Some have
> been mentioned to have bigger compression than 50cc and I wondered, if
> not what classifies a bike as a moped and not a motorcycle, and where
> the line is drawn?
>		  JLove
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:15:29 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802030841.CAA31783@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


Get a Biturbo pipe. They are around $100 give or take 15%:

Mickey's tomostomos@aol.com
Andover: andover@aol.com
Steve's: mopedmoped@aol.com

Michael Liu

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Sun, 01 Feb 1998 02:41:47 -0500
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: pinhead@ufl.edu
> Subject:	The Tomos saga continues...
>
>
> Finally had some time this weekend to sit down and start inspecting Mr.
> Tomos.
>
> First order of business was a change of tranny oil. I drained and
> inspected the current contents of the gearbox, and aside from trace
> amounts of what I assume is clutch dust, it was pure and clean.
>
> At this point, I figured I was in a good position to open up the gearbox
> (right side) and have a look. And everything appears fine.
>
> The inside of the case was clean and free of residue and sludge. The
> gears themselves were in perfect condition, free from cracks, scratches,
> discoloration, uneven wear, or other signs of abuse. I'm no expert on
> centrifugal clutches, but they appeared to be doing all right in terms
> of lining.
>
> Satisfied, I gave everything a quick wipe, then bolted it back together
> and topped it off with fresh fluid.
>
> Next, I pulled and inspected the plug. Again, flawless. The center
> insulator was a proper shade of brown, the electrodes appeared
> undamaged, and were gapped at just a hair over the manuals spec of .5mm,
> looked like about .55 or .6 on my universal feeler. A slight oily coat
> on the electrodes, but nothing too terribly thick. It isn't arcing. A
> little anti-seize on the threads and back in goes the plug.
>
> Next, with all the talk of exhausts, I decided to inspect mine. So I
> removed the pipe from the cylinder. First, a quick inspection of the
> exhaust port itself revealed little. Aside from a fairly rough casting
> it was clean and clear.
>
> The exhaust pipe was another matter.
>
> Knowing that restriction is not our friend, I cleaned up the mating
> surface of the pipe, pressed it against my lips, and gave a nice, smooth
> exhale. I could not believe the amount of back-pressure! Felt like
> something was clogging the pipe!
>
> One set-screw later I had removed the baffle on the end, and I tried it
> again. Smooth as silk this time. No restriction at all. So being the
> naturally curious bastard that I am, I bolted my new straight-pipe
> exhaust back onto the bike, and took it out for a spin.
>
> Aside from being rather louder, I was quite disappointed. Throttle
> response is definately somewhat quicker up on the kickstand, but on the
> road, my digital speedo says I've gained about 1 mph of top speed at
> wide-open throttle, downhill. And worse, my climbing performance is
> totally unchanged.
>
> So, back on with the cleaned-out baffle, and back to the drawing board.
> It feels almost like this bike has a governor on it that's keeping me at
> 30mph.
>
> Why is it that I have to hot-rod every vehicle I get into? :)
>
>												-=>Joe Perez<=-
>											 -=>pinhead@ufl.edu<=-
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:16:55 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802030843.CAA31845@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: Subject Unknown


What a deal!!! Do you have papers?

Michael Liu

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:33:53 -0700
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: jamstar@sb.net
> Subject: Subject Unknown
>
>
> Greetings:
>
> I have a 1977 Puch Newport moped for sale. It has 385 miles on it. It has
> been garaged for about 15 years. It had a little rust on it which I
> scrubbed off, but it still would need repainting and rechroming. Some
> people have told me to sell it for $75 and others $200. I'll take any
> offers, but take note that it is in Santa Barbara, California.
>
> Jean
>
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:39:03 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject:  Re: Fw: Derbi scooters


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------13385D3D19D4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> *************************************************
> Date:  Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:52:08 -0600
> To:  "Mailing List" 
> From: daugava@inlink.com
> Subject:	Fw: Derbi scooters
>
> -------- reply to Quentin <666554@keysmac.com> -------
>  We expect to begin stocking new Derbi scooters in three weeks. Our local
>  motorcycle dealer is selling 55+ mph 50cc ultra-modern units for around
>  $2200. They look like a Zuma that's been modernized.
>
>  Keywesst@aol.com
Wait until you see this baby tiger on the road.
/d/moped/mop-derbigpr50.jpg



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:59:42 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SearsPucher@webtv.net
Subject:  Re: "Moped Digest"  #82


Hey Mike!
 Never seen a 2-speed sears Puch, Pictues show engines are similar. I'd
like to experiment and see if over 60 or 65cc jugs will bolt-up. I'm
pretty confident on my gears, i'm in 4th by 20mph if I want.
  One of the Sabres has been modified, I just haven't torn it down yet.
Carb is totally different, got it running once, went 50+ (crapped my
pants) took it home and parked it. Bob suggested chek with Steve's to
see if different jus would work.

I'm Gone !!!!!!!!!!



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 11:33:04 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject:  50cc top speed



 I was looking on the net one night and found a link about moped's top
speed. From the article I read it was set in England At around 135 mph. Of
course it did not look very much like a moped, but it was under the shell
that they added to streamline it. The article is on the web if you care to
look it up!!!
Thank You
Bob Taylor

daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:15:08 -0400 (EDT)
> To:  <199801302229.QAA32584@mail.valuenet.net>
> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
> Subject:  Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]
>
> The fastest moped on the planet isn't 50 cc. There is a point when you
> trade top speed for acceleration. Anyone can gear up a moped to go 55
> mph top speed with sprockets and speed kits, but at a certain point the
> acceleration starts to stink. You may be able to go 55-60 mph, but it
> will take 5 minutes to get there from a stop. What is it that you want?
> Great acceleration or great top speed-you can't have both unless you get
> a motorcycle.
>
> Michael Liu



Date:  Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:44:13 -0800
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject:  Re: Tomos engine advice?


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> *************************************************
> Date:  Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:11:58 -0400 (EDT)
> To:  <199801302228.QAA32484@mail.valuenet.net>
> From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
> Subject:	Re: Tomos engine advice?
>
> I really think replies like this should not be on this list. I have dealt
> with Steve's Moped's and although everyone isn't perfect, the labor he has
> charged me for work he has done has been fair. Steve has to eat and he
> knows his way around mopeds. His labor rates aren't inherently high-there
> are competitive. Just my 2 cents worth. That's a hell of alot less than he
> charges but what do you expect for quality work?
>
> Michael Liu
>
> On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> > *************************************************
> > Date:  Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:20:49 -0800
> > To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> > From: proof@idt.net
> > Subject:  Re: Tomos engine advice?
> >
> >
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > >
> > > *************************************************
> > > Date:  Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:22:31 EST
> > > To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> > > From: MOPEDMOPED@aol.com
> > > Subject:	Re: Tomos engine advice?
> > >
> > > If your dealer is as smart as we are he could heat the Bi-turbo header pipe up
> > > to about 1,600 deg. and bend the header pipe to allow proper alignment with
> > > the Big-bore cylinder. It takes us about 60 seconds with an oxy-accetlyene
> > > torch. Then you can use the same exhaust. We can do this for you . We
> > > guarantee all our work in writing.
> > > Steve's Moped & Bicycle World Inc. 40 Park Ave. Dumont NJ (201)384-7777
> > >						   E-mail MOPEDMOPED@AOL.COM  We ship anywhere
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah too bad your labor charges are so outrageous
> >
> >
> >



Ok I have also dealt with Steve's and have found his rates to be not at all competitive. I was just expressing
that opinion. I am curious though - why do you think responses like this should not be on the mailing list?
This is not a one-way broadcasting medium for people's advertisements. Everyone on here has the right to
respond to any post that is put on here.



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 12:02:37 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject:  Re: Tomos engine advice?


Give them h-ll Steve!!!! Most shops will charge a flat 1 hour rate if it takes
only 10 minutes. And that flat hour can and will be around $50 to $65 dollars. So
let them find it cheaper if they can, they will be back and when they are I hope
that they like the taste of crow, because they will have to eat there share!!!!

daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:29:05 EST
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: MOPEDMOPED@aol.com
> Subject:  Re: Tomos engine advice?
>
> To completly reset up and and align a Biturbo Exhaust system from a standard
> configuration to fit a 60 to 70cc cylinder would only cost $25.00 to $30.00
> which includes the use of the oxy-accetlyene torch to bend and change the
> header angle. This is 75% less than buying a new exhaust system. This is a
> great price. I have never seen another shop that has done this. That is why
> when you call around most people tell you to buy a new exhaust. They do not
> have the expertise that we have.
> Most mopeds that come in for repair are "butcherd" up before we get them. We
> have to correct the damage done to them by people that do not know what thet
> are doing then fix the original problem. This take a lot of extra time. Just
> last week we had someone try to mount a bi-turbo on there moped. The kid
> twisted it, bent it, cut it, hammered it and still could not get it right.
> When he brought it to us we straightened it out and properly installed it and
> it dit cost him $10.00 extra. This is a real fair deal and like all our
> repairs is back by a 3 month guarantee in writing.
>                                                      Best Regards:
>                                                              Steve Hassa
> President
>                                                              Steve's Moped &
> Bicycle World Inc.
>                                                               40 Park Avenue
> Dumont NJ 07628
>                                                              ph(201)384-7777
> fAX(201)384-7831
>                                                             E-MAIL
> MOPEDMOPED@AOL.COM

 



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 00:03:30 -0800
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: proof@idt.net
Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> *************************************************
> Date:  Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:12:06 +0100
> To:  "Peter Staal" 
> From: staal@westbrabant.net
> Subject:	Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
> Aan: Moped Mailing List 
> Datum: vrijdag 30 januari 1998 23:44
> Onderwerp: Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
>
> >*************************************************
> >Date:  Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:50:00 -0400 (EDT)
> >To:	<199801291619.KAA07910@mail.valuenet.net>
> >From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
> >Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
> >
> >
> >I have a used 60 cc piston/cyclinder assembly I want to get rid of for
> >$99. It's really not a bad thing if you really want the extra power. I put
> >less than 200 miles on it before upgrading to a 70 cc. The 60 cc kit
> >increased my top speed from 25 up to 37 mph.
> >
> >Michael Liu
> >
> >
> >
> Hi Michael,
>  I guess that 90% of your gain in speed is made by the better porting of the
> other cylinder and has almost nothing to do with the cc's (unless you weight
> 100 kg or more)...
> :-) try to buy less cylinder in stead of more (more ports=less metal) 50cc
> is enough trust me. why do you think it is so popular ? because it is just
> not enough cc's?
> when used all cc's properly a 50cc will carry you at an av. of >60km/h for
> years. (37mph or more thus)
>
>	 Bye, Peter Staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Email: staal@concepts.nl
>  Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes Peter but in the US we need alot more ACCELERATION because when you are first on line at a red light the
lovely motorists of this country have no patience or consideration for alternative vehicles.



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 14:26:24 -0500
To:  moped mail 
From: jlove1@maine.rr.com
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle



--------------4AF5ACD500C1921FFCF4C2F6
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Jlove wrote

> > 	Hi everyone,
> > 		There's been all this talk about making mopeds faster. Some have
> > been mentioned to have bigger compression than 50cc and I wondered, if
> > not what classifies a bike as a moped and not a motorcycle, and where
> > the line is drawn?
> > 		JLove

> I'd say difference is that moped had automatic transmission.
> I've heard that were a couple motorcycles that were automatic,
> but they were exception to thr rule and none of the current models
> seem to be automatic..
>
> Andrew

This seems to make sense except that, I know that at least in the state of
maine, one must apply for a motorcycle license to operate one after having
taking a motorcycle education class but a moped can be operated on any class c
license. There is no course required for a moped either. Does anyone else know
if this is in fact the only difference or whether there is an other reason?
	Thanks,
		Jlove


--------------4AF5ACD500C1921FFCF4C2F6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Jlove wrote
>     Hi everyone,

>         There's been all
this talk about making mopeds faster. Some have

> been mentioned to have bigger compression than 50cc and I wondered,
if

> not what classifies a bike as a moped and not a motorcycle, and
where

> the line is drawn?

>         JLove

I'd say difference is that moped had automatic
transmission.

I've heard that were a couple motorcycles that were automatic,

but they were exception to thr rule and none of the current models

seem to be automatic..

Andrew
This seems to make sense except that, I know that at least in the state
of maine, one must apply for a motorcycle license to operate one after
having taking a motorcycle education class but a moped can be operated
on any class c license. There is no course required for a moped either.
Does anyone else know if this is in fact the only difference or whether
there is an other reason?

    Thanks,

        Jlove

 

--------------4AF5ACD500C1921FFCF4C2F6--



Date:  03 Feb 97 19:13:56 +0000
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: zac.beeston@trak-one.co.uk
Subject:  Honda


Hi!
Can anyone tell me what they reckon a "Honda Melody" (1987) scooter is worth?
Also, how much should I expect to pay for a decent looking moped (that runs :)
)? Cheers!

Zac
www.merseyworld.com/imagine/
--
 |Fidonet : Zac Beeston 2:254/62.17
 |Internet: zac.beeston@trak-one.co.uk
 |
 | Via the TRAK-ONE! BBS Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway at 2:254/60
 | See http://www.trak-one.co.uk for further information.
 | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own.



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:39:07 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Puch Speeeeeeed


I HAVE A PUCH MAGNUM 2 80' THAT WILL DO ABOUT 60-65 ON FLAT SURFACES AND I
HAVE EVEN HIT 75 DOWN HILL.

	BUDDY HALL



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:36:49 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
Subject:  Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]


THAT ARTICLE ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE GREAT ACCLERATION AND A HIGH TOP
SPEED IS FALSE.  I CAN GET TO ABOUT 55-60 IN ABOUT	12-SECONDS AND CAN HANG
WITH SOME CARS IN FIRST GEAR.

	BUDDY HALL



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:42:43 -0600
To:  "Mailing List" 
From: daugava@inlink.com
Subject:  I might have messed up


Hi!

I might have accidentally nuked some messages today.
So, if you posted something on Februrary 3 and it didn't go thru,
would you kindly repost it.

Sorry about that!

Another thing - if you send an attached image, please, please, put it in a
separate
message (with no text). Otherwise, it's a nightmare to detach it, while
trying to preserve the rest of the text.

Andrew
Moped Mailing List Administrator



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:15:23 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Gokartridr@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


What do you mean, they are only for riding on bumpy dirt trails and gravel and
no street or pavement at all?



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:55:16 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: GeeeTeee@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Puch Speeeeeeed


that's crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  why would you want to go that fast on a moped.
they aren't engineered for that kind of speed



Date:  Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:47:12 -0800
To:  
From: twein@bright.net
Subject:  Re: Fw: Derbi scooters


I sell Tomos and majestic mopeds along with Midwest scooters and ATV's.
could you send me some information or have it sent to me, regarding the
Debra scooter.	Tony Weinfurtner, The Motorcycle Store, 202 Vernon St.,
Ironton, Ohio 45638, Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: daugava@nothnbut.net 
To: Moped Mailing List 
Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Derbi scooters


>daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>>
>> *************************************************
>> Date:  Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:52:08 -0600
>> To:	"Mailing List" 
>> From: daugava@inlink.com
>> Subject:  Fw: Derbi scooters
>>
>> -------- reply to Quentin <666554@keysmac.com> -------
>>	We expect to begin stocking new Derbi scooters in three weeks. Our local
>>	motorcycle dealer is selling 55+ mph 50cc ultra-modern units for around
>>	$2200. They look like a Zuma that's been modernized.
>>
>>	Keywesst@aol.com
>Wait until you see this baby tiger on the road.
>/d/moped/mop-derbigpr50.jpg
>
>



Date:  Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:49:57 -0800
To:  
From: twein@bright.net
Subject:  Re: Fw: News about Whizzer


The Whizzer is coming back. A company here in the US will be setting up
dealers in the near future.
-----Original Message-----
From: daugava@nothnbut.net 
To: Moped Mailing List 
Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: News about Whizzer


>*************************************************
>Date:	Wed, 05 Feb 1997 21:19:46 -0700
>To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: danyo@montrose.net
>Subject:  Re: Fw: News about Whizzer
>
>
>daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
>> *************************************************
>> Date:  Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:59:40 -0800
>> To:	daugava@nothnbut.net
>> From: proof@idt.net
>> Subject:  Re: Fw: News about Whizzer
>>
>> daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>> >
>> > *************************************************
>> > Date:	Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:04:56 -0700 (MST)
>> > To:  
>> > From: jback@nilenet.com
>> > Subject:  Re: Fw: News about Whizzer
>> >
>> > >*************************************************
>> > >Date:  Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:49:56 -0600
>> > >To:  "Mailing List" 
>> > >From: jback@nilenet.com
>> > >Subject:	WANT MORE INFO ASAP
>> > >
>> > Dear Robert;
>> >
>> >	I wrote you a few days ago and I just wanted to keep in touch. I
>> am
>> > designing a motorized bike myself after years of restoring various
>> Whizzers
>> > (4 so far, although I'm now down to owning just one, a 1948 BF
>> Goodrich
>> > [Schwinn] H-model).
>> >
>> > I have always been fascinated by strange contraptions and less than
>> ordinary
>> > means of getting from point A to Pittsburgh.... my first car being a
>> 1958
>> > DKW 2-stroke (then licensed as a motorcycle in OR [1976] with a
>> helmet law
>> > in effect and a confused police force in town)--- now owning a '57
>> > Studebaker and an early 1930 Model A Speedster that I drive nearly
>> every day.
>> >
>> > But my heart, soul and lower intestines belong to light motorcycles
>> and
>> > scooters (being spoiled rotten by a 1962 Cushman Silver Eagle). I
>> love
>> > Whizzers, but have to admit I'd rather go 55 on my Eagle than 35 on
>> a
>> > Whiz... but they sure look cool!
>> >
>> > I'm presently a police officer and my goal is to open up a scooter
>> shop near
>> > Denver University within the next 3 years. I am working with an
>> experience
>> > machinist in designing a Honda-based 4-stroke power unit utilizing a
>> few
>> > repro'd Whiz components. I saw the repro Whizzer and was sorely
>> disappointed
>> > by the execution (not to mention the blatant false advertising;
>> vintage
>> > Whizzer pix & all).
>> >
>> > My bike (tentatively called the BAX) will be mounted in a Schwinn
>> cruiser
>> > frame in standard (non-sprung) and deluxe (springer fork, cycle lock
>> + aux
>> > tank) versions. Both will include a modern Stermy-Archer expander
>> brake. I
>> > plan on developing several appearance options (fishtail exhaust,
>> mini-spot
>> > lites) to compliment the bikes. I am still working out some minor
>> > engineering details as to belt profiles and belt clearance but have
>> worked
>> > out the main problem of a clutch shaft adapter (expensive problem,
>> > incidentally).
>> > The Honda engine meets smog in all 50 states and will propel a 185lb
>> guy
>> > about 23mph at sea level... no speed demon for sure but adequate.
>> >
>> > I am interested in your resusitation of Whizzer and would like to
>> obtain
>> > dealer info---- I see you having a big hurdle overcoming the
>> hundreds of
>> > Whizzer owners out there knowing about the earlier machine's lousy
>> > reputation--- and feel you must return to the seperate barrel/(best
>> > w/hi-finned) head design--- getting as close to the H or J series as
>>
>> > possible. Carburation is problematical as Mikuni is the most
>> established
>> > mini-carb producer around, which sickens a lot of Tillotson purists.
>> I am
>> > extremely curious how you're going to overcome these problems, not
>> to
>> > mention smog certs, DOT approval, etc.
>> > Are you planning to do any bi-light/generator reproduction?
>> > Who's making your sheves?
>> >
>> > For Chrissake's keep in touch, you get going and I want to be a
>> dealer!!!
>> >
>> > Jack Backstreet
>> > 19004 E Chenango Cir
>> > Aurora, CO 80015-4948
>> >
>> > Fax: (303) 627-8032.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Speaking of strange vehicles any of you who have ever been to rural
>> areas
>> of italy have no doubt seen Piaggio's strange 3 wheel utility vehicle
>> called the "ape" (bee in italian as opposed to "vespa" or wasp). It's
>> got
>> an enclosed cab in front with a regular car seat in it (only one) and
>> an
>> open pickup truck type cargo bay in the back. The steering is
>> controlled
>> by a scooter type handlebar with hand activated brakes i think. The
>> wheels are no bigger than scooter wheels and the engine sounds like a
>> scooter type engine - dont know how big it is. Anyway, this would be
>> an
>> ultracool vehicle to have here in US - good for rainy days when you
>> dont
>> wanna ride your ped. Anyone ever see one here?
>
>Jan 31, 98
>
>Hi Guys:
>
>I was reading your message regarding the three wheeled vehicle.  During
>my tour of duty in Viet Nam, I used to see many of these vehicle.	I
>think that most of them were made by Lambretta.  They used to be used
>for pickup trucks to taxis.  The Vietnamese really knew how to load them
>down with anything that could hang on or be tied on.
>
>I haven't seen any of them here in the USA.
>
>See ya,
>
>Dan Johnson
>Gunnison, CO  81230
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802032139.PAA09632@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]


You most certainly don't have a PUCH Maxi and a stock 70 or 60 cc kit.
SOme mechanical modifications have to happen to get that kind of power-it
is definitely possible. However, if you take a Stock Puch Maxi (like those
we remember from the 70s), and you replace the carb/piston/cylinder with a
speed kit. It will NOT do 55mph in 12 seconds.

However, if you start looking at the chemistry	and physics of the
situation: power, efficiency,thermodynamics, stoichiomtry (I really don't
know what I'm talking about). Then you conclude that you have to take some
material off the skirt, perhaps hollow the piston out a little more, hmmm
maybe even stick on a BIGGER carb than 15 mm, maybe even port those
connections out even more. Then you have a kick ass bike. However, these
finely tuned bikes don't take the variable of wear and tear into account.
It is possible through physical modifications to make a 50 cc bike
scream-top speed AND top accelleration. However, it gets to a point where
it is so finely tuned that it is to be replaced every week or even less -
some guys have to put on new parts every day; but they race for a living.


Michael Liu

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:36:49 EST
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
> Subject:	Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]
>
>
> THAT ARTICLE ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE GREAT ACCLERATION AND A HIGH TOP
> SPEED IS FALSE.  I CAN GET TO ABOUT 55-60 IN ABOUT  12-SECONDS AND CAN HANG
> WITH SOME CARS IN FIRST GEAR.
>
>	  BUDDY HALL
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:06:49 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802032137.PAA09553@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS


Yes-you are absolutely right-that's why I ride in the breakdown lane (if
one exists), however, I don't do 40 mph when I'm on the extreme right-that
would be plain stupid....ooops here comes another mailbox!!!

Michael Liu

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 00:03:30 -0800
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: proof@idt.net
> Subject:	Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
>
>
> daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> >
> > *************************************************
> > Date:  Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:12:06 +0100
> > To:  "Peter Staal" 
> > From: staal@westbrabant.net
> > Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
> >
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
> > Aan: Moped Mailing List 
> > Datum: vrijdag 30 januari 1998 23:44
> > Onderwerp: Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
> >
> > >*************************************************
> > >Date:	Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:50:00 -0400 (EDT)
> > >To:  <199801291619.KAA07910@mail.valuenet.net>
> > >From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
> > >Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
> > >
> > >
> > >I have a used 60 cc piston/cyclinder assembly I want to get rid of for
> > >$99. It's really not a bad thing if you really want the extra power. I put
> > >less than 200 miles on it before upgrading to a 70 cc. The 60 cc kit
> > >increased my top speed from 25 up to 37 mph.
> > >
> > >Michael Liu
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Hi Michael,
> >  I guess that 90% of your gain in speed is made by the better porting of the
> > other cylinder and has almost nothing to do with the cc's (unless you weight
> > 100 kg or more)...
> > :-) try to buy less cylinder in stead of more (more ports=less metal) 50cc
> > is enough trust me. why do you think it is so popular ? because it is just
> > not enough cc's?
> > when used all cc's properly a 50cc will carry you at an av. of >60km/h for
> > years. (37mph or more thus)
> >
> >    Bye, Peter Staal
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Email: staal@concepts.nl
> >  Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Yes Peter but in the US we need alot more ACCELERATION because when you are first on line at a red light the
> lovely motorists of this country have no patience or consideration for alternative vehicles.
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:09:46 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802032137.PAA09526@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: Tomos engine advice?


I'd rather not get into a discussion about freedom of expression... You
are correct, you have the right to respond in the way you feel best. It
would just be nice to clarify your opinion with some kind of description.
It's one thing to say that some one is unfair, however it's much different
when you describe why that person is unfair. It's also much different if
you call someone a cheat. It's the same message, one is just more
substantial.

But, that's just me!! I understand where you're coming from.

Michael Liu

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:44:13 -0800
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: proof@idt.net
> Subject:	Re: Tomos engine advice?
>
>
> daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> >
> > *************************************************
> > Date:  Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:11:58 -0400 (EDT)
> > To:  <199801302228.QAA32484@mail.valuenet.net>
> > From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
> > Subject:  Re: Tomos engine advice?
> >
> > I really think replies like this should not be on this list. I have dealt
> > with Steve's Moped's and although everyone isn't perfect, the labor he has
> > charged me for work he has done has been fair. Steve has to eat and he
> > knows his way around mopeds. His labor rates aren't inherently high-there
> > are competitive. Just my 2 cents worth. That's a hell of alot less than he
> > charges but what do you expect for quality work?
> >
> > Michael Liu
> >
> > On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> >
> > > *************************************************
> > > Date:  Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:20:49 -0800
> > > To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> > > From: proof@idt.net
> > > Subject:	Re: Tomos engine advice?
> > >
> > >
> > > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > *************************************************
> > > > Date:  Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:22:31 EST
> > > > To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> > > > From: MOPEDMOPED@aol.com
> > > > Subject:  Re: Tomos engine advice?
> > > >
> > > > If your dealer is as smart as we are he could heat the Bi-turbo header pipe up
> > > > to about 1,600 deg. and bend the header pipe to allow proper alignment with
> > > > the Big-bore cylinder. It takes us about 60 seconds with an oxy-accetlyene
> > > > torch. Then you can use the same exhaust. We can do this for you . We
> > > > guarantee all our work in writing.
> > > > Steve's Moped & Bicycle World Inc. 40 Park Ave. Dumont NJ (201)384-7777
> > > > 						 E-mail MOPEDMOPED@AOL.COM	We ship anywhere
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah too bad your labor charges are so outrageous
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Ok I have also dealt with Steve's and have found his rates to be not at all competitive. I was just expressing
> that opinion. I am curious though - why do you think responses like this should not be on the mailing list?
> This is not a one-way broadcasting medium for people's advertisements. Everyone on here has the right to
> respond to any post that is put on here.
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:10:26 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802032138.PAA09608@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: Puch Speeeeeeed


The Magnum is PORTED more than the Maxis-bigger cyclinders too.

Michael Liu

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:39:07 EST
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
> Subject:	Re: Puch Speeeeeeed
>
>
> I HAVE A PUCH MAGNUM 2 80' THAT WILL DO ABOUT 60-65 ON FLAT SURFACES AND I
> HAVE EVEN HIT 75 DOWN HILL.
>
>	  BUDDY HALL
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802032136.PAA09458@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: "Moped Digest"  #82


The two-speed and single speed Puchs from the 70s looked almost the same.
One real discernible difference is the transmission-the single speeds
where kind of cylindrical (round) and the teo speeds were more squarish.

Michael Liu

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:59:42 -0500
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: SearsPucher@webtv.net
> Subject:	Re: "Moped Digest"  #82
>
>
> Hey Mike!
>  Never seen a 2-speed sears Puch, Pictues show engines are similar. I'd
> like to experiment and see if over 60 or 65cc jugs will bolt-up. I'm
> pretty confident on my gears, i'm in 4th by 20mph if I want.
>	One of the Sabres has been modified, I just haven't torn it down yet.
> Carb is totally different, got it running once, went 50+ (crapped my
> pants) took it home and parked it. Bob suggested chek with Steve's to
> see if different jus would work.
>
> I'm Gone !!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:16:48 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802032136.PAA09458@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: "Moped Digest"  #82


4 speeds!!!!! woh-where can I get one of those tranny's?

Michael Liu

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:59:42 -0500
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: SearsPucher@webtv.net
> Subject:	Re: "Moped Digest"  #82
>
>
> Hey Mike!
>  Never seen a 2-speed sears Puch, Pictues show engines are similar. I'd
> like to experiment and see if over 60 or 65cc jugs will bolt-up. I'm
> pretty confident on my gears, i'm in 4th by 20mph if I want.
>	One of the Sabres has been modified, I just haven't torn it down yet.
> Carb is totally different, got it running once, went 50+ (crapped my
> pants) took it home and parked it. Bob suggested chek with Steve's to
> see if different jus would work.
>
> I'm Gone !!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:09:09 -0800
To:  agner@erols.com
From: agner@erols.com
Subject:  Re: Vespa Piaggio


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> *************************************************
> Date:  Thu, 06 Feb 1997 00:43:44 -0700
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: danyo@montrose.net
> Subject:	Re: Vespa Piaggio
>
> daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> > *************************************************
> > Date:  Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:02:47 -0800
> > To:  agner@erols.com
> > From: agner@erols.com
> > Subject:  Re: Vespa Piaggio
> >
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > >
> > > *************************************************
> > > Date:  Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:23:11 -0700
> > > To:  "daugava@nothnbut.net" 
> > > From: danyo@montrose.net
> > > Subject:	Vespa Piaggio
> > >
> > > Jan 19, 1998
> > >
> > > Subject: Vespa Piaggio
> > >
> > > Hi everyone:
> > >
> > > I'm the new guy looking for a Peugeot Sport.  However, while
> > discussing
> > > Vespas with a friend of mine, he mentioned that he had one for
> > sale.  I
> > > thought he was talking about a scooter so I went and looked at it.
> > > Turns out that it is a "piaggio" moped.  It's a 1979 model and
> > doesn't
> > > look to be in bad shape.	He wants $150 US.  Anyone have any ideas
> > as to
> > > the value of this bike?  Too Much?  Good deal?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Dan Johnson
> > Are you in Montrose, CO?  AS for the VEspa, I have one and love it.
> > It's
> > a 1980.  Parts are available through the shops in the US that support
> > Vespa's.  John from NJ
>
>	 Jan 31,98
>
> John:
>
> No, I live in Gunnison but my server is in Montrose.	Any idea what the
> value high/low might be on the Piaggio?  I understand from hitting every
> moped link that I can find that the models vary.	I'm going to find out
> what the exact model is prior to even making an offer.  I only ran
> across this bike through a discussion I had regarding my restoration of
> my 74 Yamaha TX500.  The guy that has the Piaggio just said "Vespa" and
> I went and took a short look at it....thought he meant a scooter.  Might
> be a fun ride though around here in the summer.
>
> Gotta run
>
> Dan Johnson
It is a fun ride! In fact, I did quite a bit of biking in CO back in
college in the 70's-B.A.:Metro State; M.A.:U.N.C., Greeley; Principal's
Cert.: C.S.U.  I rode a Kaw 400 triple and a 75 Norton Commando
Interstate.  I get down your way every few years--family in Denver,
Gunnison, Canon City.  The ped would be great on the flats, but I don't
know how it would handle the canyons.  Anyone have any experience riding
a ped up a canyon?	JOhn




Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:11:59 -0800
To:  agner@erols.com
From: agner@erols.com
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


Idaugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> *************************************************
> Date:  Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:21:35 -0500
> To:  moped mail 
> From: jlove1@maine.rr.com
> Subject:	Moped vs. Motorcycle
>
>	  Hi everyone,
>		  There's been all this talk about making mopeds faster. Some have
> been mentioned to have bigger compression than 50cc and I wondered, if
> not what classifies a bike as a moped and not a motorcycle, and where
> the line is drawn?
>		  JLove
It probably varies state to state. In NJ it can't exceed 49cc or a top
speed of 30 mph, and in NJ it can't carry a passenger.  However, the ped
I have was bought in PA and it was classified as a cycle on the PA
title.	I probably could have registered it as a cycle but didn't so my
son can ride it when he turns 15. John from NJ




Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:34:05 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


HELLO,

		ARE YOU SERIOUS THAT THE SPEED KITS ARE ILEAGAL, I DON'T THINK THEY
ARE IN MY STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA,	I HAVE FIVE FRIENDS THAT I STEET RACE WITH
THAT ALL HAVE HAD SPEED KITS AND HAVE NEVER BEEN PULLED FOR THAT REASON.  I
DON'T REALLY  CARE IF IT IS LEAGAL OR NOT, I MEAN COME ON WHO IT GOING TO
NOTICE IF IT IS 65CC'S OR IF IT HAS A SPEED KIT!  COPS AROUND HERE DON'T KNOW
THE MOPED LAW!!!!!!!!!



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:50:24 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS


HELLO,

	   ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE wrote about the red light accleration you are right.
WHEN  i am beside a car at a red light,  they laugh and so i rev, my moped up
and they laugh more, so i give it all it's got and i show that person what a
true MOPED is.	They weren't laughing anymore.



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:52:39 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Puch info and parts catalog


hello,

		Is there a	such thing as NOS on a moped?



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:31:05
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: drstupid@usa.net
Subject:  Re: [50cc top speed]


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 11:33:04 -0500
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: 6828t@bright.net
> Subject:	50cc top speed
>
>
>
>  I was looking on the net one night and found a link about moped's top
> speed. From the article I read it was set in England At around 135 mph. Of
> course it did not look very much like a moped, but it was under the shell
> that they added to streamline it. The article is on the web if you care to
> look it up!!!
> Thank You
> Bob Taylor
>
> daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> > *************************************************
> > Date:  Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:15:08 -0400 (EDT)
> > To:  <199801302229.QAA32584@mail.valuenet.net>
> > From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
> > Subject:  Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]
> >
> > The fastest moped on the planet isn't 50 cc. There is a point when you
> > trade top speed for acceleration. Anyone can gear up a moped to go 55
> > mph top speed with sprockets and speed kits, but at a certain point the
> > acceleration starts to stink. You may be able to go 55-60 mph, but it
> > will take 5 minutes to get there from a stop. What is it that you want?
> > Great acceleration or great top speed-you can't have both unless you get
> > a motorcycle.
> >
> > Michael Liu
>

What's the URL??
DS



____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:45:28
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: drstupid@usa.net
Subject:  Re: [Re: Puch Speeeeeeed]


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:39:07 EST
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
> Subject:	Re: Puch Speeeeeeed
>
>
> I HAVE A PUCH MAGNUM 2 80' THAT WILL DO ABOUT 60-65 ON FLAT SURFACES AND I
> HAVE EVEN HIT 75 DOWN HILL.
>
>	  BUDDY HALL
>

What have you done to it??
DS



____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com



Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:11:07
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: drstupid@usa.net
Subject:  Re: [Fw: Derbi scooters]


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> *************************************************
> Date:  Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:52:08 -0600
> To:  "Mailing List" 
> From: daugava@inlink.com
> Subject:	Fw: Derbi scooters
>
>
> -------- reply to Quentin <666554@keysmac.com> -------
>  We expect to begin stocking new Derbi scooters in three weeks. Our local
>  motorcycle dealer is selling 55+ mph 50cc ultra-modern units for around
>  $2200. They look like a Zuma that's been modernized.
>
>  Keywesst@aol.com
>

Are you planning to stock the derbi mopeds ever??
DS



____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com



Date:  Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:17:38 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SearsPucher@webtv.net
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


I was lead to believe, in Ohio, Mopeds have a peddle mechanism, under
50cc., less than 5hp, and stays at 25mph or under. My Cleveland Cop
son-in-law agrees but he didn't know motorcycles prior to 1968 don't
require turn signals, or suicide knobs are illegal !!!!!!

I'm Gone !!!!!!!!!!



Date:  Sun, 09 Feb 1997 12:07:09 -0700
To:  "daugava@nothnbut.net" 
From: danyo@montrose.net
Subject:  Seat cover for Vespa Grande


Feb 4, 98

To: All moped parts vendors:

Just purchased a piaggio grande.  I need a seat cover that has the name
on the back so that I can keep it original.  Please let me know the cost
for this item.	I'll have it installed where I live.

Thanks,

Dan Johnson
Gunnison, CO



Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:52:38 +0100
To:  "Peter Staal" 
From: staal@westbrabant.net
Subject:  Re: SEARS PUCH



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
Aan: Moped Mailing List 
Datum: zaterdag 31 januari 1998 3:07
Onderwerp: SEARS PUCH


*************************************************
Date:  Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:44:50 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: C104@webtv.net
Subject:  SEARS PUCH


Hi,
I'm John located near Cleveland Ohio.
There is a Sears Motorcycle Club. I my self have 2 that my wife would
sell but I won"t. There are some out and about. I can contact club for
you if you'd like or find Bill Murar.(He's Pres. of Club) I have 2 1967
Sears "sabres" They're 50cc Puch's with 4 speed transmissons.

Thank You,	  JJ

What is the contact adress from the club because i think we share the same
kick for egg -shaped tanks and the puch sound.
see:

   Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Email: staal@concepts.nl
 Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------




Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:58:54 +0100
To:  "Peter Staal" 
From: staal@westbrabant.net
Subject:  Re: Puch Speeeeeeed



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
Aan: Moped Mailing List 
Datum: dinsdag 3 februari 1998 9:45
Onderwerp: Puch Speeeeeeed


*************************************************
Date:  Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:00:22 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SearsPucher@webtv.net
Subject:  Puch Speeeeeeed


OK OK OK Let me get this staight. You guys are taking 25mph Puchs,
adding 60 or 70 cc	jugs, better carb, expansion chamber. Then going 40+
mph????
  MMM Lets see my 67's are 4 speeds that do 40+, what would happen if I
went with a 70cc set-up???
-->depends on porting and timing ~50-60+

I wonder if bolt pattern is same? Have to
remember forced air cooling system on mine. Anyone have any ideas?
-- saw it off, no need for :-)
I do  have a complete parts bike to experiment with. What's the fastest Puch
speeeeeed????

well over 100 mph.. (no more forced aircooling here)

	I'm Gone!!!!!!!

   Bye, Peter Staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Email: staal@concepts.nl
 Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
----------------------------------------------------------------------







Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:11:23 +0100
To:  "Peter Staal" 
From: staal@westbrabant.net
Subject:  Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
Aan: Moped Mailing List 
Datum: dinsdag 3 februari 1998 9:46
Onderwerp: Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]


>*************************************************
>Date:	Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:15:08 -0400 (EDT)
>To:  <199801302229.QAA32584@mail.valuenet.net>
>From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
>Subject:  Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]
>
>
>The fastest moped on the planet isn't 50 cc. There is a point when you
>trade top speed for acceleration. Anyone can gear up a moped to go 55
>mph top speed with sprockets and speed kits, but at a certain point the
>acceleration starts to stink. You may be able to go 55-60 mph, but it
>will take 5 minutes to get there from a stop. What is it that you want?
>Great acceleration or great top speed-you can't have both unless you get
>a motorcycle.
>
>Michael Liu
>
>
>

or do a good tuning job 50-60 cruising speed is very good possible with
50cc. And with a good accelerating too, it all depends on your gearing	:)
and as automatic drivers(all who this conserns) you don't have, one execpt
the chain wheels, bad luck indeed :-)

Btw for me are mopeds 50cc and smaller (55 - 60 -65 - 70 cc are gained by
oversizing during the wear and tear of the cylinder)
(getting to personal ?)
Peter.




Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:36:54 +0100
To:  "Peter Staal" 
From: staal@westbrabant.net
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
Aan: Moped Mailing List 
Datum: dinsdag 3 februari 1998 9:51
Onderwerp: The Tomos saga continues...


>*************************************************
>Date:	Sun, 01 Feb 1998 02:41:47 -0500
>To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: pinhead@ufl.edu
>Subject:  The Tomos saga continues...
>
>
>Finally had some time this weekend to sit down and start inspecting Mr.
>Tomos.
>
>First order of business was a change of tranny oil. I drained and
>inspected the current contents of the gearbox, and aside from trace
>amounts of what I assume is clutch dust, it was pure and clean.
>
>At this point, I figured I was in a good position to open up the gearbox
>(right side) and have a look. And everything appears fine.
>
>The inside of the case was clean and free of residue and sludge. The
>gears themselves were in perfect condition, free from cracks, scratches,
>discoloration, uneven wear, or other signs of abuse. I'm no expert on
>centrifugal clutches, but they appeared to be doing all right in terms
>of lining.
>
>Satisfied, I gave everything a quick wipe, then bolted it back together
>and topped it off with fresh fluid.
>
>Next, I pulled and inspected the plug. Again, flawless. The center
>insulator was a proper shade of brown, the electrodes appeared
>undamaged, and were gapped at just a hair over the manuals spec of .5mm,
>looked like about .55 or .6 on my universal feeler. A slight oily coat
>on the electrodes, but nothing too terribly thick. It isn't arcing. A
>little anti-seize on the threads and back in goes the plug.
>
>Next, with all the talk of exhausts, I decided to inspect mine. So I
>removed the pipe from the cylinder. First, a quick inspection of the
>exhaust port itself revealed little. Aside from a fairly rough casting
>it was clean and clear.
>
>The exhaust pipe was another matter.
>
>Knowing that restriction is not our friend, I cleaned up the mating
>surface of the pipe, pressed it against my lips, and gave a nice, smooth
>exhale. I could not believe the amount of back-pressure! Felt like
>something was clogging the pipe!
>
>One set-screw later I had removed the baffle on the end, and I tried it
>again. Smooth as silk this time. No restriction at all. So being the
>naturally curious bastard that I am, I bolted my new straight-pipe
>exhaust back onto the bike, and took it out for a spin.
>
>Aside from being rather louder, I was quite disappointed. Throttle
>response is definately somewhat quicker up on the kickstand, but on the
>road, my digital speedo says I've gained about 1 mph of top speed at
>wide-open throttle, downhill. And worse, my climbing performance is
>totally unchanged.
>
>So, back on with the cleaned-out baffle, and back to the drawing board.
>It feels almost like this bike has a governor on it that's keeping me at
>30mph.
>
>Why is it that I have to hot-rod every vehicle I get into? :)
>
>											   -=>Joe Perez<=-
>											-=>pinhead@ufl.edu<=-
>
>
>
Hi Joe,
I think you where almost there....
next time also remove the head and cylinder, check the ports sizes
in/out/and between
i think you 'll see a small exhaust port . make this (upwards to the head)
at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the stroke high with a file , smoothen the edges with
fine waterproofsandpaper and done with part one.
the back pressure you experienced with your pipe was possible to much but a
little is ok (not blowable to feel) it all has to do with a tuned exhaust
pipe as topping on	your filing work. but an standard expansion chamberpipe
will do, with a short as possible manifold to the cylinder . biturbo or some
of that crap.
now it will be time to get some more compression and get 1 or 2 mm from the
heads flange with sanding paper ( with tape on the edge on a thick glass
plate) and go from rough to very fine sandpaper and move it very good
horizontaly over it, assuring a horizontal wear of the flange (for about 2
hours :-) ) make sure the surface is perfect flat again and use a new
gasket..
pjoo.
Peter.

(try to file mm by mm and monage it again and try it out , don't over do
it.)
a fresh set of carb jets might come in handy to while doing this or use a
resizable jet if possible.





Date:  Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:35:38 +0100
To:  "Peter Staal" 
From: staal@westbrabant.net
Subject:  Re: Puch Speeeeeeed



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
Aan: Moped Mailing List 
Datum: dinsdag 3 februari 1998 23:00
Onderwerp: Re: Puch Speeeeeeed


>*************************************************
>Date:	Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:39:07 EST
>To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
>Subject:  Re: Puch Speeeeeeed
>
>
>I HAVE A PUCH MAGNUM 2 80' THAT WILL DO ABOUT 60-65 ON FLAT SURFACES AND I
>HAVE EVEN HIT 75 DOWN HILL.
>
>	 BUDDY HALL
>
>
>
Mph or Km ? real or on the speedometer ?
What carb, cyl, exh. do you use ?
Peter.



Date:  Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:54:43 +0100
To:  "Peter Staal" 
From: staal@westbrabant.net
Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
Aan: Moped Mailing List 
Datum: dinsdag 3 februari 1998 23:03
Onderwerp: Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS


>*************************************************
>Date:	Tue, 03 Feb 1998 00:03:30 -0800
>To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: proof@idt.net
>Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
>
>
>daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>>
>> *************************************************
>> Date:  Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:12:06 +0100
>> To:	"Peter Staal" 
>> From: staal@westbrabant.net
>> Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
>>
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
>> Aan: Moped Mailing List 
>> Datum: vrijdag 30 januari 1998 23:44
>> Onderwerp: Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
>>
>> >*************************************************
>> >Date:  Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:50:00 -0400 (EDT)
>> >To:  <199801291619.KAA07910@mail.valuenet.net>
>> >From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
>> >Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
>> >
>> >
>> >I have a used 60 cc piston/cyclinder assembly I want to get rid of for
>> >$99. It's really not a bad thing if you really want the extra power. I
put
>> >less than 200 miles on it before upgrading to a 70 cc. The 60 cc kit
>> >increased my top speed from 25 up to 37 mph.
>> >
>> >Michael Liu
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> Hi Michael,
>>	I guess that 90% of your gain in speed is made by the better porting of
the
>> other cylinder and has almost nothing to do with the cc's (unless you
weight
>> 100 kg or more)...
>> :-) try to buy less cylinder in stead of more (more ports=less metal)
50cc
>> is enough trust me. why do you think it is so popular ? because it is
just
>> not enough cc's?
>> when used all cc's properly a 50cc will carry you at an av. of >60km/h
for
>> years. (37mph or more thus)
>>
>>	  Bye, Peter Staal
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>	Email: staal@concepts.nl
>>	Home: http://home.concepts.nl/~staal
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Yes Peter but in the US we need alot more ACCELERATION because when you are
first on line at a red light the
>lovely motorists of this country have no patience or consideration for
alternative vehicles.
>
>
>
A good porting job gives you more rpms and more POWER so more acceleration
too even at low rpm. When combined with a 3 or 4 gear ped you leave all cars
behind you in the city traffic.
i guess 4Hp will do the job for that, and that is just moderate tuning,
leave enough room for errors to do the job jour selve.


Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssst is as fast in the Us.
Here it is a jungle too, acceleration is life saver nr 1 here, considering
the average lenght of a street here. Some roads have more meters crossing
than open road :-) . And i guess you never heared of
"verkeersremmendemaatregelen" = 'trafic speed reducing objects' on the road,
real killers some times, what about bicycle lanes (you are forced to use,
till next year) from 80 cm wide... including front coming others..
to get a normal average speed, acceleration is essential.
And ofcoarse for a wheely :-).
Peter.




Date:  Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:14:40 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


In a message dated 98-02-03 03:47:19 EST, you write:

<< So, back on with the cleaned-out baffle, and back to the drawing board.
 It feels almost like this bike has a governor on it that's keeping me at
 30mph.  >>

The stock Tomos pipe has an "S" bend (kink?) in it to increase backpressure,
all the baffel really does is keep thing quiet.  Plus, remember that exhaling
is definitely neither the amount nor velocity of engine exaust gases.  The
stock pipe also has maybe a quarter inch diameter hole at the end, while the
Biturbo pipe has about a one inch opening at the end, and no kink.	;-)



Date:  Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:17:33 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


In a message dated 98-02-03 16:39:05 EST, you write:

<< The speed kits are NOT INTENDED FOR STREET USE.
 THEY ARE FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY!!! >>

And yet, no-one cares.	Not even the BMV.  (I licensed my Targa with the
supposedly competition only Biturbo no problem, the guy looked right at it.)



Date:  Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:23:02 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Tomos engine advice?


In a message dated 98-02-03 16:41:09 EST, you write:

<< Ok I have also dealt with Steve's and have found his rates to be not at all
competitive. I was just expressing
 that opinion. I am curious though - why do you think responses like this
should not be on the mailing list?
 This is not a one-way broadcasting medium for people's advertisements.
Everyone on here has the right to
 respond to any post that is put on here. >>

Define competitive, if I offer a service that no-one else does, how can you
compare my rate to anyone elce's?  Also, how many moped shops are there
anyway?  It's not like automotive shops, which are around almost every corner
(we have 3 in a town of maybe 4,500 people).  As far as I know there is only
one moped place in the metro Toledo area.  If I save $10 by taking the 'ped to
place "X", but it costs me $12 to get the 'ped to place "X", it is not worth
it.



Date:  Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:45:51 -0500
To:  chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject:  zakopane


couldnt find any more info on that puch sticker or whatever it was. i
assume tho, that zakopane at least held races at some time. i believe
they bid for upcoming olympic winter games...



Date:  Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:51:27 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject:  Re: Puch Speeeeeeed


You most have a death wish!!! And people call me crazy!!!! LOL  LOL

daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:39:07 EST
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
> Subject:  Re: Puch Speeeeeeed
>
> I HAVE A PUCH MAGNUM 2 80' THAT WILL DO ABOUT 60-65 ON FLAT SURFACES AND I
> HAVE EVEN HIT 75 DOWN HILL.
>
>     BUDDY HALL

 



Date:  Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:02:42 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: 6828t@bright.net
Subject:  Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]



--------------41879567703D12D628A071A2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Mr. Sleepy
  It's time to wake up!!!!! It sounds like a nice story. What kind of moped do
you have? WAKE UP. Sorry I guess it is your story so you can tell it anyway
that you want!!!!
Thank You
Bob T.

daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:36:49 EST
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
> Subject:  Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]
>
> THAT ARTICLE ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE GREAT ACCLERATION AND A HIGH TOP
> SPEED IS FALSE.  I CAN GET TO ABOUT 55-60 IN ABOUT  12-SECONDS AND CAN HANG
> WITH SOME CARS IN FIRST GEAR.
>
>     BUDDY HALL

 

--------------41879567703D12D628A071A2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Hi Mr. Sleepy

  It's time to wake up!!!!! It sounds like a nice story. What
kind of moped do you have? WAKE UP. Sorry I guess
it is your story so you can tell it anyway that you want!!!!

Thank You

Bob T.

daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
*************************************************

Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:36:49 EST

To:  daugava@nothnbut.net

From: Z28SS97420@aol.com

Subject:  Re: [Re: [Re: Tomos engine advice?]]

THAT ARTICLE ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE GREAT ACCLERATION AND A HIGH
TOP

SPEED IS FALSE.  I CAN GET TO ABOUT 55-60 IN ABOUT  12-SECONDS
AND CAN HANG

WITH SOME CARS IN FIRST GEAR.

    BUDDY HALL
 

--------------41879567703D12D628A071A2--



Date:  Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:03:23 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: pinhead@ufl.edu
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> The stock Tomos pipe has an "S" bend (kink?) in it to increase backpressure,
> all the baffel really does is keep thing quiet.  Plus, remember that exhaling
> is definitely neither the amount nor velocity of engine exaust gases.  The
> stock pipe also has maybe a quarter inch diameter hole at the end, while the
> Biturbo pipe has about a one inch opening at the end, and no kink.  ;-)

Hmmm. There is no bend externally visable (other than the transition
from the cylinder to a horizontal position facing the rear) but there
may be something screwey inside the muff. I think I shall run a fish
tape through to get a feel for what's in there.

I'm also remarkably tempted to just remove the exhaust altogether and
see what that does for me.

By the time I'm done, this thing is going to sound like my friend Dave's
455 GTO :)

											  -=>Joe Perez<=-
										   -=>pinhead@ufl.edu<=-



Date:  Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:12:38 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: pinhead@ufl.edu
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> I think you where almost there....
> next time also remove the head and cylinder, check the ports sizes
> in/out/and between
> i think you 'll see a small exhaust port . make this (upwards to the head)
> at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the stroke high with a file

By altering the piston-side of the port, will I not in effect be
completely screwing with the port timing? If the port runs 1/3 of the
stroke, It seems like I'll be wasting a lot of burn time!

> smoothen the edges with
> fine waterproofsandpaper and done with part one.

Polishing is easy. Porting still scares me.

> the back pressure you experienced with your pipe was possible to much but a
> little is ok (not blowable to feel)

True. But even removing the little pipes on the back, there was a
noticable difference.

> it all has to do with a tuned exhaust
> pipe as topping on  your filing work. but an standard expansion chamberpipe
> will do, with a short as possible manifold to the cylinder . biturbo or some
> of that crap.

I still don't quite understand what these "biturbo" exhaust systems are.
Glasspacks? Larger baffles? Something I've never seen or heard of?

> now it will be time to get some more compression and get 1 or 2 mm from the
> heads flange with sanding paper ( with tape on the edge on a thick glass

Great. I can just see myself pouring 93 octane into my Tomos.

"This thing has a higher compression ratio than a 'Vette!"

But seriously. I may cc the head and do the deck height calculations.
Any suggestions on a reasonable compression ratio to shoot for? I *AM*
driving this thing in Florida, in the summer, in stop and go traffic for
some part.


											  -=>Joe Perez<=-
										   -=>pinhead@ufl.edu<=-



Date:  Sun, 09 Feb 1997 21:53:15 -0700
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: danyo@montrose.net
Subject:  Re: Vespa Piaggio


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:09:09 -0800
> To:  agner@erols.com
> From: agner@erols.com
> Subject:	Re: Vespa Piaggio
>
> daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> >
> > *************************************************
> > Date:  Thu, 06 Feb 1997 00:43:44 -0700
> > To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> > From: danyo@montrose.net
> > Subject:  Re: Vespa Piaggio
> >
> > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> >
> > > *************************************************
> > > Date:  Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:02:47 -0800
> > > To:  agner@erols.com
> > > From: agner@erols.com
> > > Subject:	Re: Vespa Piaggio
> > >
> > > daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > *************************************************
> > > > Date:  Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:23:11 -0700
> > > > To:  "daugava@nothnbut.net" 
> > > > From: danyo@montrose.net
> > > > Subject:  Vespa Piaggio
> > > >
> > > > Jan 19, 1998
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Vespa Piaggio
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone:
> > > >
> > > > I'm the new guy looking for a Peugeot Sport.  However, while
> > > discussing
> > > > Vespas with a friend of mine, he mentioned that he had one for
> > > sale.  I
> > > > thought he was talking about a scooter so I went and looked at
> it.
> > > > Turns out that it is a "piaggio" moped.  It's a 1979 model and
> > > doesn't
> > > > look to be in bad shape.  He wants $150 US.  Anyone have any
> ideas
> > > as to
> > > > the value of this bike?  Too Much?	Good deal?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Dan Johnson
> > > Are you in Montrose, CO?	AS for the VEspa, I have one and love
> it.
> > > It's
> > > a 1980.  Parts are available through the shops in the US that
> support
> > > Vespa's.  John from NJ
> >
> >    Jan 31,98
> >
> > John:
> >
> > No, I live in Gunnison but my server is in Montrose.  Any idea what
> the
> > value high/low might be on the Piaggio?  I understand from hitting
> every
> > moped link that I can find that the models vary.  I'm going to find
> out
> > what the exact model is prior to even making an offer.	I only ran
> > across this bike through a discussion I had regarding my restoration
> of
> > my 74 Yamaha TX500.  The guy that has the Piaggio just said "Vespa"
> and
> > I went and took a short look at it....thought he meant a scooter.
> Might
> > be a fun ride though around here in the summer.
> >
> > Gotta run
> >
> > Dan Johnson
> It is a fun ride! In fact, I did quite a bit of biking in CO back in
> college in the 70's-B.A.:Metro State; M.A.:U.N.C., Greeley;
> Principal's
> Cert.: C.S.U.  I rode a Kaw 400 triple and a 75 Norton Commando
> Interstate.  I get down your way every few years--family in Denver,
> Gunnison, Canon City.  The ped would be great on the flats, but I
> don't
> know how it would handle the canyons.  Anyone have any experience
> riding
> a ped up a canyon?  JOhn

   Feb 4, 1998

John:

I graduated from Metro State as well>>>>BA in Music Ed.  However, after
my first teaching job, I found that I do better outside of the teaching
field.	Went to work for the Postal Service and am now the Supervisor at
the Gunnison Post Office.  If you get to Gunnison, you'll know where to
find me.  Seems like I live there.	I bought the Piaggio just today.
Turns out it is a Grande.  Picked it up for a "C" note.  As I live only
four miles north of town, it should be great for a work machine.  My
Ford truck is really a gas hog.  Anyway, drop me a line periodically.

Dan



Date:  Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:59:27 -0500 (EST)
To:  Moped Mailing List 
From: danny@dreamscape.com
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...



> Date:  Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:03:23 -0500
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: pinhead@ufl.edu
> Subject:	Re: The Tomos saga continues...

> I'm also remarkably tempted to just remove the exhaust altogether and
> see what that does for me.

I haven't followed this thread, but if Tomos is a two-stroke, you won't
like the result from removing the exhaust.	It's a critical component to
two-stroke engines.

					~ Danny ~

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
syracuse ska!!	 
all about scooters!!  
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-



Date:  Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:56:18 -0700 (MST)
To:  
From: jback@nilenet.com
Subject:  Re: What are these??


>*************************************************
>Date:	Sat, 31 Jan 1998 23:15:49 -0500 (EST)
>To:  Moped Mailing List 
>From: danny@dreamscape.com
>Subject:  What are these??
>
>
>
>Found this website of a place in FL selling 50cc scooters, but there is no
>hint who makes them ... check them out at  and
>tell me what you think ... I'm guessing some company in Taiwan, China or
>Korea, but it's pretty hard to tell ... thanks!
>
>					~ Danny ~
>
>~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
>syracuse ska!!   
>all about scooters!!  
>-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
>
>
>Weird web site... the PRICES page is under construction???? Anyhoo... they
appear to be 2 strokers of the mutant Honda body style ilk... forgive me,
I'm still trying to adjust my eyes after looking at that web site's
background design. Nope, no I'm gonna be sick...

Jack Backstreet



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:15:58 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS


In a message dated 98-02-04 21:10:18 EST, you write:

<<		  ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE wrote about the red light accleration you are
right.
 WHEN  i am beside a car at a red light,  they laugh and so i rev, my moped up
 and they laugh more, so i give it all it's got and i show that person what a
 true MOPED is.  They weren't laughing anymore.
  >>


when i first read this, i got a good laugh out of it. i think it would be cool
to have a stock looking ped thats been modified for power so you can show
these idiots something else.
last summer i took my scooter to the beach and cruised up and down the strip.
these jocks with hi powered bikes were making fun of me on my little 50cc
scooter yet the speed limit was 30mph and/or they wanted to ride slow to show
off so i could keep up with them just fine. go figure. i thought everyone was
equal when on two wheels. guess not.



Date:  Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:42:10 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: pinhead@ufl.edu
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> I haven't followed this thread, but if Tomos is a two-stroke, you won't
> like the result from removing the exhaust.  It's a critical component to
> two-stroke engines.

It is a two-cycle, yes. Dare I even open this can of worms by asking
why?

											  -=>Joe Perez<=-
										   -=>pinhead@ufl.edu<=-



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:24:40 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


In a message dated 98-02-05 10:16:19 EST, you write:

<< > I'm also remarkably tempted to just remove the exhaust altogether and
 > see what that does for me.

 I haven't followed this thread, but if Tomos is a two-stroke, you won't
 like the result from removing the exhaust.  It's a critical component to
 two-stroke engines. >>

i was running my qt50 around once with no exhaust and someone told me i
shouldnt do that because that will "burn it up"
i know that running a 4stroke motor without exhaust pipe can burn the valves,
but what about 2 stroke motors?



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:02:55 -0500 (EST)
To:  Moped Mailing List 
From: ghessels@tdchristian.on.ca
Subject:  Motobecane


Hey, after seeing all this talk about the Tomas peds, I was wondering any
one out there have any experience with Motobecane peds?  I am working on
restoring a Motobecane Cady and I need a muffler and headlight/speedo
assembly. If anyone has any hints for me that would be great.  Also are
there any hopup kits for Motobecanes. I live in Toronto, Ontario and extra
speed is alway apreciated. Especially since I am up against many crazy
drivers I need all the help I can get.

Regards,
	Greg Hessels




Date:  Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:25:33 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: paltron@interlog.com
Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------5CA644CF60E1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> *************************************************
> Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:15:58 EST
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
> Subject:	Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
>
> In a message dated 98-02-04 21:10:18 EST, you write:
>
> <<		ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE wrote about the red light accleration you are
> right.
>  WHEN  i am beside a car at a red light,	they laugh and so i rev, my moped up
>  and they laugh more, so i give it all it's got and i show that person what a
>  true MOPED is.  They weren't laughing anymore.
>	>>
>
> when i first read this, i got a good laugh out of it. i think it would be cool
> to have a stock looking ped thats been modified for power so you can show
> these idiots something else.
> last summer i took my scooter to the beach and cruised up and down the strip.
> these jocks with hi powered bikes were making fun of me on my little 50cc
> scooter yet the speed limit was 30mph and/or they wanted to ride slow to show
> off so i could keep up with them just fine. go figure. i thought everyone was
> equal when on two wheels. guess not.
Let me repost this as it seems the previous didn't make it through:
the world speed record in the 50cc class was set back in 1965 by a
Kreidler 2-stroke powered little cigar-like machine that clocked in at
223 kmh. So much for ridicule. Remember folks, it is not the size that
counts but the delivery!
PA

ANDREW: The picture is at
/d/moped/kr-meo65.jpg



Date:  Thu, 05 Feb 1998 12:55:43 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802050307.VAA13429@ns1.networkusa.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


Just becasue something is against the law, doesn't mean people don't to
it. A moped in NY is uncer 50cc and 30mph-above that it's not a moped.

Michael Liu

On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:34:05 EST
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
> Subject:	Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle
>
>
> HELLO,
>
>		  ARE YOU SERIOUS THAT THE SPEED KITS ARE ILEAGAL, I DON'T THINK THEY
> ARE IN MY STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA,  I HAVE FIVE FRIENDS THAT I STEET RACE WITH
> THAT ALL HAVE HAD SPEED KITS AND HAVE NEVER BEEN PULLED FOR THAT REASON.	I
> DON'T REALLY  CARE IF IT IS LEAGAL OR NOT, I MEAN COME ON WHO IT GOING TO
> NOTICE IF IT IS 65CC'S OR IF IT HAS A SPEED KIT!  COPS AROUND HERE DON'T KNOW
> THE MOPED LAW!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>



Date:  Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:59:41 -0600 (CST)
To:  cyclepro@evansville.net
From: cyclepro@evansville.net
Subject:  Brother Hood


On	Thu, 5 Feb, daugava@nothnbut.net wrote...
>*************************************************
>Date:	Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:15:58 EST
>To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com
>Subject:  Re: More power for Joe's 91 TOMOS
>
>
>In a message dated 98-02-04 21:10:18 EST, you write:
>
><< 	   ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE wrote about the red light accleration you are
>right.
> WHEN	i am beside a car at a red light,  they laugh and so i rev, my moped up
> and they laugh more, so i give it all it's got and i show that person what a
> true MOPED is.  They weren't laughing anymore.
>  >>
>
>
>when i first read this, i got a good laugh out of it. i think it would be cool
>to have a stock looking ped thats been modified for power so you can show
>these idiots something else.
>last summer i took my scooter to the beach and cruised up and down the strip.
>these jocks with hi powered bikes were making fun of me on my little 50cc
>scooter yet the speed limit was 30mph and/or they wanted to ride slow to show
>off so i could keep up with them just fine. go figure. i thought everyone was
>equal when on two wheels. guess not.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE EQUAL THING.....BUT IN MY BOOK DEFINATELY A
BROTHER.....GREG



Date:  Thu, 05 Feb 1998 15:02:19 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802052111.MAA22198@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: Motobecane


I know for certain that Mickey of Mickey's Mopeds (not of Disney!!!) has
experience with Motobecanes. He has a whole bunch of brand new parts all
sorted by part number. I'm not talking a few drawers, I'm talking like
10x30 or 300 drawers (I'm going from memory). Mickey is in the process of
expanding his business-more space, so he may be a little wrapped up in
that. However, it is off season so if you're still riding your moped now,
you've got to be a moped nut (like me). I encourage you to write to him at
tomostomos@aol.com.

Michael Liu

On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:

> *************************************************
> Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:02:55 -0500 (EST)
> To:  Moped Mailing List 
> From: ghessels@tdchristian.on.ca
> Subject:	Motobecane
>
>
> Hey, after seeing all this talk about the Tomas peds, I was wondering any
> one out there have any experience with Motobecane peds?  I am working on
> restoring a Motobecane Cady and I need a muffler and headlight/speedo
> assembly. If anyone has any hints for me that would be great.  Also are
> there any hopup kits for Motobecanes. I live in Toronto, Ontario and extra
> speed is alway apreciated. Especially since I am up against many crazy
> drivers I need all the help I can get.
>
> Regards,
>	Greg Hessels
>
>
>
>



Date:  Thu, 05 Feb 1998 15:08:53 -0400 (EDT)
To:  <199802052112.MAA22247@mail.valuenet.net>
From: mtliu@ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


Speed kits are no illegal. A moped is a two weeled contraption with
pedals, reflectors in certain parts, a rear view mirror, under 50 cc and
under 30 mph (in NY). Annything a user does to deviate from this makes it
no longer a moped and subject to different regulations. Moped shops that
sell speed kits do so with the clear intent THAT THE PARTS ARE NOT MEANT
FOR STREET USE. What the end user does, is therefore the users
responsiblity.

If you go to wal-mart and buy a bottle asprin and take the whole bottle,
wal-mart isn't responsible becasue whomever did that is using the item for
which it was not intended. If there was contamination in the bottle,
that's a different issue.

Anyone who buys a Biturbo pipe is free to do with it what they want. A
dealer will make it clear that it is for off road use on a moped only. You
can take it and stick it on your Toyota Camrey if you really want to. You
can even stick tennis balls in it and use it like a cannon, or you can
even use it as a baseball bat. However, it was sold to be used for one
purpose only and when you choose to use it for some other creative
purpose-it is your own responsibility.

Michael Liu



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:12:02 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


MOPEDS?   I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE FROM BUT ARUOUND HERE WE DON'T EVEN
CONSIDER TAKING OUT MOPED'S OFF ROAD,  THEY ARE STRICKLY STREET DRIVEN.



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:25:28 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Puch Speeeeeeed


NOPE, I JUST  HAVE THE NEED FOR SPEED



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:32:39 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


In a message dated 98-02-04 21:08:43 EST, you write:

<< I was lead to believe, in Ohio, Mopeds have a peddle mechanism, under
 50cc., less than 5hp, and stays at 25mph or under. >>

Ohio they must have a top speed (level ground) of no more than 20mph, no more
than 1 brake horsepower, a provision to be pedaled, 50cc or less, and an
automatic transmission.  No one really cares though.  The cop across the
street knows that my ped can hit 40 (stock Targa LX w/ exception of Biturbo
exaust), but doesn't care.  More importantly, the patrollman I passed (he was
stopped on the roadside) while going 40 didn't care either.



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:40:55 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


In a message dated 98-02-04 23:41:35 EST, you write:

<< I still don't quite understand what these "biturbo" exhaust systems are.
 Glasspacks? Larger baffles? Something I've never seen or heard of? >>

The Biturbo is simply an aftermarket exaust that has no baffel, has an
expansion chamber, and has roughly a 4X larger opening at the end compared to
the stock pipe.  They cost around $100, give or take $15.



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:45:01 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


In a message dated 98-02-05 10:16:19 EST, you write:

<< but if Tomos is a two-stroke >>

IF!?  To the best of my knowledge, the only 4-stroke 'peds ever built were
Hondas.



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:35:12 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


In a message dated 98-02-04 21:09:27 EST, you write:

<< ARE YOU SERIOUS THAT THE SPEED KITS ARE ILEAGAL, I DON'T THINK THEY
 ARE IN MY STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA,  I HAVE FIVE FRIENDS THAT I STEET RACE
WITH
 THAT ALL HAVE HAD SPEED KITS AND HAVE NEVER BEEN PULLED FOR THAT REASON.  I
 DON'T REALLY  CARE IF IT IS LEAGAL OR NOT, I MEAN COME ON WHO IT GOING TO
 NOTICE IF IT IS 65CC'S OR IF IT HAS A SPEED KIT!  COPS AROUND HERE DON'T KNOW
 THE MOPED LAW!!!!!!!!! >>

Yes, the larger displacement kits technically make the moped a motorcycle, but
you are right that the cops can't tell, even if they could I don't believe
that they would ever stop you unless you were over the posted speed limit, or
had obvious defects with your 'ped (missing a headlight, etc.).



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:43:54 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: AaronM428@aol.com
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


In a message dated 98-02-04 23:41:36 EST, you write:

<< I'm also remarkably tempted to just remove the exhaust altogether and
 see what that does for me. >>

Probably get you arrested for disturbing the peace. ;-)  My guess is that the
'ped would become too loud for anything resembling distance riding.  I was
told that the stock pipe has a kink in it, but I have not seen one yet (I
bought my Targa with the Biturbo installed).  I may be mistaken.



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:19:30 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: PedAction@aol.com
Subject:  my moped experience


Hey Kids!
I am going to tell you a little story about a boy named Matt and his moped. It
goes like this. It is a true story that happened to me just about an hour ago.
Some of you will know the people involved, some will not. Just bear with me.



			  Today I was riding my ped with Jess Wright and Jeremy Clegg.
Well, It was a sort of scooter race to see who could catch who. Actually it
was more like me catching up to Jess to throw a snowball at him, but who pays
attention to details? Anyway, for those of you who know the streets of our
lovely town, I was driving on Capitol toward Harrison from my house. Jess was
about 20 feet ahead of me, and the light turned yellow as he crossed the
intersection. I blatently ran the red light in continuance of my pursuit.
Well, I didn't see the cop until I was clearly in violation of the law. I
honked my little horn as a warning to Jess that we were in danger. After 2
turns, and about 3 blocks, we gave up the idea that we were going to out run
the police. Upon pulling over, friendly Officer Borth examined our driver's
licenses. I learned today that it is unlawful to ride a moped with out a
helmet. But as with many facets of the law, there is a catch, and today
happened to be my lucky day. The helmet law only applies to those under the
age of 18. Well, since I am 18, this superfluous law did not apply to me. The
nice officer withdrew his comment to the dispatcher that there were two
juvinile delinquints and made the correction to one juvenile in violation of
the law. I was off	the hook, and Jess was in the police car. After getting
all of the pertinent information, Officer Borth let Jess go with a firm
lecture and a $50.00 helmet violation. Now, many of you may be wondering "
Where is Jeremy?"  Boy #3 was smart enough to do do three things.  1. stop at
the red light
2. realize he was in violation of not only the helmet statute, but also
lacking eye protection.
3. take every alley and back road possible to get home instead of going back
to see if his buddies got busted.


Well, This is the end of the story of my third altercation with our fine
police force with no penalties. I thank you if you have read this far, and if
you haven't then you aren't reading right now so I will shut up.

M@tt





Date:  Thu, 05 Feb 1998 20:52:05 -0500
To:  chrislo@cfw.com
From: chrislo@cfw.com
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


>What the end user does, is therefore the users
> responsiblity. Anyone who buys a Biturbo pipe is free to do with it what they want. when you choose to use it for some other creative
> purpose-it is your own responsibility.

here we go again. any ambulance-chasing lawyer will tell you otherwise.
its anyones fault but yours.
cause an accident and the insurance company finds you've made your ped
faster, they most certainly will not pay, so you'll have to raise money
somehow; you'll likely be sued by the other party, so all thats left is
to try to sue the dealer for selling the evil kit to you.



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:51:03 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: SearsPucher@webtv.net
Subject:  Re: SEARS PUCH


Sears Allstate Motorcycle Owners Club
Bill Murar	(Pres.)
SAMOC@Juno.com
Motorcycles, Mopeds, Scooters, Vespa, Puch, you name it, every member
different!!!!!!

I'm Gone !!!!!!!!!!



Date:  Fri, 6 Feb 1998 02:50:16 +0100
To:  
From: achg@dds.nl
Subject:  Re: "Moped Digest"  #82


----------
> Van: daugava@nothnbut.net
> Aan: Moped Digest 
> Onderwerp: "Moped Digest"  #82
> Datum: maandag 2 februari 1998 1:12
>
> 
> Date:  Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:30:06 -0800
> To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
> From: proof@idt.net
> Subject:	Re: Long distance tour
>
>
> daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
> >
> > *************************************************
> > Date:  Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:07:20 -0500 (EST)
> > To:  Moped Mailing List 
> > From: danny@dreamscape.com
> > Subject:  Re: Long distance tour
> >
> > On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 proof@idt.net wrote:
> > > Wow fantastic.  Go to www.vespa.com to read about a guy who is going
> > > aroud the world on a scooter. I think he is in central america right
now
> > > on his way to alaska. then it's on to siberia. Good site for
> > > inspiration.
> >
> > Actually, comparing a 200cc Vespa scooter with a top cruising speed of
> > 65mph to a moped doesn't seem very fair.  OTOH, last summer I met an
older
> > couple from Italy that had ridden their early Lambretta scooters across
> > the USA.  His was a '47 Lambretta Model "A" with a top speed of about
> > 35mph and they simply just planned their route well and took their time
> --
> > not that they had a big choice.  ; )
> >
> > 										~ Danny ~
> >
> > ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
> > syracuse ska!!	 
> > all about scooters!!  
> > -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
>
>
> Ok I guess you have never been touring - either motorized or bicycle. The
> whole point of it is to go slow and
> see the small roads and small towns. In USA that means seeing the places
> America has thrown out like garbage. It's very fascinating. I have done
> some fully loaded bicycle touring - avg speed maybe 8mph. That's a little
> too slow at times. From my one year of riding my moped I find that I do
not
> even like going over 25 or maybe 30 mph even though my ped can do almost
> 50. Touring at over 25 mph I think is a contradiction. If this guy on the
> Vespa is going 65mph then he is wasting his time.
>
You got my point: the reason why I don't want to go by air: now way of
finding out anything about the people and the country's you are passing! A
motorbike is a bit too easy (although it's still not common going) and a
bike would be to heavy for me so I guess a moped is a good (and
challengeing) alternative! I will though speed up my Honda MTX a little so
that if neseccesary I can speed up and that I don't need to drive all the
time at full speed (at 30 mph), isn't very good for the thing especialy in
hot weather.
Has anyone an idea about how long this trip might take? (from The
Netherlands to South-Africa RSA).

Still all help is welcome, as is a possible partner for this trip too.

Greetinx

	AnToine

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Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:43:54 EST
Subject: Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle
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*************************************************
Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:12:02 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
Subject:  Re: Moped vs. Motorcycle


MOPEDS?   I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE FROM BUT ARUOUND HERE WE DON'T EVEN
CONSIDER TAKING OUT MOPED'S OFF ROAD,  THEY ARE STRICKLY STREET DRIVEN.



--VAD04912.886736252/barney.globecomm.net--



Date:  Fri, 06 Feb 1998 00:02:19 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: pinhead@ufl.edu
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> << I'm also remarkably tempted to just remove the exhaust altogether and
>  see what that does for me. >>
>
> Probably get you arrested for disturbing the peace. ;-)  My guess is that the
> 'ped would become too loud for anything resembling distance riding.

I don't plan on keeping it that way, I'm just a tad curious... :)

> I was
> told that the stock pipe has a kink in it, but I have not seen one yet (I
> bought my Targa with the Biturbo installed).	I may be mistaken.

Well, the pipe has at the end a removable section which does consist of
two pieces of small diameter pipe (inlet and outlet) which are not
directly connected. The exhaust enters the first pipe, shoots past the
opening on the other, and has to do an about-face in order to exit the
system. Crude ASCII art:
	   ______________________
	  | 					 \
	  | 	   small pipes	  \___________
	  | 	 <<<===============___________
	 ==============<<<		  / 		   To Engine ->
<-Out |______________________/

<<< indicates direction of exhaust flow.


So, if you turn your head a certain way and excercise a great deal of
imagination, you can see how the exhaust is forced to do a turn-around
inside the chamber. Sort of like a poorly designed automotivce muffler.

Anyway, that section is easily removable from the pipe, and having been
removed, yielded almost no noticable gains in performance.

											  -=>Joe Perez<=-
										   -=>pinhead@ufl.edu<=-



Date:  Fri, 06 Feb 1998 00:03:49 -0500
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: pinhead@ufl.edu
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>
> The Biturbo is simply an aftermarket exaust that has no baffel, has an
> expansion chamber, and has roughly a 4X larger opening at the end compared to
> the stock pipe.  They cost around $100, give or take $15.

So if I take my stock pipe, cut off the rear half, and weld on a small
glasspack, I've got basically the same thing for $20, no?

											  -=>Joe Perez<=-
										   -=>pinhead@ufl.edu<=-



Date:  Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:53:23 EST
To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
From: MOPEDMOPED@aol.com
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...


Dear Andrew:

Check out this address as someone wanted to see a biturbo. We are going to add
a bunch of improvements to the page in Febuary and March.
http://members.aol.com/mopedmoped/index.htm  clik on online showroom  then
speed kit for Tomos and Puch.	It will bring you to the address of a nice
picture of the 70cc speed Kit with the Biturbo and all cables gaskets etc.
from Steve's Moped & Bicycle World  in Dumont NJ
Speed kit is at 	  http://members.aol.com/mopedmoped/osr11.htm



Date:  Fri, 6 Feb 1998 07:25:52 +-200
To:  "'Moped Mailing List'" 
From: Rodger_A@bokomo.co.za
Subject:  Help - I bought a Puch


Firstly, I picked up a small but very cute off road bike yesterday not =
knowing anything about it and taking the previous owners word that she =
would run by simply replacing the barrel and head that were removed. I =
have now discovered that this is a Puch with the stamp E50 on the =
engine. The engine number is 4417888. The carb has the word BING on it =
and the numbers 1/17/165. The front tyre is a 2.50 - 14 nobbly and the =
rear is a 2.75/3.00 - 12 nobbly.
HELP please - I would like any one of you brilliant authorities out =
there to respond so that I can ask you some pretty stupid questions =
regarding getting her up and going (oil quantities, how the automatic =
works, does it have one, two or three gears e.t.c.)
Secondly, has anyone, apart from Hans, heard of a RAP 55 - let me know =
please.
Cheers=20
Andrew R



Date:  Fri, 6 Feb 1998 03:13:38 +0100
To:  "Peter Staal" 
From: staal@westbrabant.net
Subject:  Re: Puch info and parts catalog



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
Aan: Moped Mailing List 
Datum: donderdag 5 februari 1998 3:12
Onderwerp: Re: Puch info and parts catalog


>*************************************************
>Date:	Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:52:39 EST
>To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: Z28SS97420@aol.com
>Subject:  Re: Puch info and parts catalog
>
>
>hello,
>
>		 Is there a  such thing as NOS on a moped?
>
>
>
You mean the famous: Not On_stock Sparepart, the always unavailable one. ah
yes there are some on your moped :-)




Date:  Fri, 6 Feb 1998 03:42:25 +0100
To:  "Peter Staal" 
From: staal@westbrabant.net
Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: daugava@nothnbut.net 
Aan: Moped Mailing List 
Datum: donderdag 5 februari 1998 5:44
Onderwerp: Re: The Tomos saga continues...


>*************************************************
>Date:	Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:12:38 -0500
>To:  daugava@nothnbut.net
>From: pinhead@ufl.edu
>Subject:  Re: The Tomos saga continues...
>
>
>daugava@nothnbut.net wrote:
>> I think you where almost there....
>> next time also remove the head and cylinder, check the ports sizes
>> in/out/and between
>> i think you 'll see a small exhaust port . make this (upwards to the
head)
>> at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the stroke high with a file
>
>By altering the piston-side of the port, will I not in effect be
>completely screwing with the port timing? If the port runs 1/3 of the
>stroke, It seems like I'll be wasting a lot of burn time!
>
You will alter the timing, sure. that is the target . normaly the exhaust
port is the safest way to prevent pure power to escape. [for the law :-)]
At the compression cycle a little fresh mixture could escape (only if
absolute refill of the cylinder has taken place ! already a good point if
you would reach that one ) that will be compensated by the exhaust (see
later). At the expansion stroke the port opens earlier so the gas has more
time to get out of the cylinder and leaves a lower pressure while the
transferports open, so they can flush in the fresh mix beter and more
powerfull then before. More fresh mixture in the cylinder is more power,
easy, the colder the better, the more compressed the best.

>> smoothen the edges with
>> fine waterproofsandpaper and done with part one.
>
>Polishing is easy. Porting still scares me.
>
>> the back pressure you experienced with your pipe was possible to much but
a
>> little is ok (not blowable to feel)
>
>True. But even removing the little pipes on the back, there was a
>noticable difference.
>
They where real small :-)
even a pipe with a 1" hole can give the moped enough back pressure....

>> it all has to do with a tuned exhaust
>> pipe as topping on  your filing work. but an standard expansion
chamberpipe
>> will do, with a short as possible manifold to the cylinder . biturbo or
some
>> of that crap.
>
>I still don't quite understand what these "biturbo" exhaust systems are.
>Glasspacks? Larger baffles? Someth